EnMasse

Berlynn · Member Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 42 Location: SK

Oh, those Liberals are soooooooo progressive! NOT!!!

I'm so sick and fricken tired of attempts to legislate my body. Evil or Very Mad

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Triz · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:40 pm Post subject:

FIVE YEARS?!! in PRISON????????

Obviously it should be zero, but that is (let me guess, not coincidentally) the average sentence for manslaughter
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West Coast Tiger · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject:

Tehanu · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:52 pm Post subject:

Has this hit the mainstream media yet? I haven't been able to find anything.

Fortunately, private members' bills tend not to go anywhere. But I don't know what the liberal leadership is doing allowing this sort of right-wing wingnut crap to proceed. Aren't they supposed to be rebuilding their party?

Okay, maybe that was slightly rhetorical.

But this is the same "thin end of the wedge" approach as that Conservative private member's bill to say that an assault on a pregnant woman causing a miscarriage/death of mother and fetus would recognise the fetus as a separate person. Remind me: Harper squashed that one, didn't he?

West Coast Tiger · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:54 pm Post subject:

Ah here ya go: Christian Current

West Coast Tiger · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:57 pm Post subject:

We should really write him and let him know how we feel, yes?

Thank you, Liberals
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Triz · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:00 pm Post subject:

I think too this is the thin edge of the wedge. What is it, 99% of abortions are performed before then? (Or at least they WERE, before women starting having to travel all over Canada to get them Mad

). So this law itself would not actually stop many abortions. Also, if you show people pictures of a fetus after 20 weeks, some will get upset at the thought of it being aborted who would be fine with abortion earlier. Plus they can justify it: "well, there's lots of time to have an abortion before 20 weeks and the woman can still get an abortion if she needs one physically."

Except, of course, that the entire damned debate would have completely changed and women would have taken away the right to make decisions about our own bodies. Scary and sickening.
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West Coast Tiger · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:01 pm Post subject:

NDP.ca

Triz · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:05 pm Post subject:

Why is NDP.ca linking to an anti-choice site that uses phrases like "preborn Canadians"?!
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West Coast Tiger · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:05 pm Post subject:

Edit: Message removed.
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West Coast Tiger · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject:

[Edited out the quote from Triz.]

Eh? I just checked the link -- it seems to be working -- goes straight to an ndp page.
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Triz · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:11 pm Post subject:

At the bottom of the NDP page, it very misleadingly says: "For a full report, click here." And suddenly you are on the anti-choice site.

I don't think that is good at all.
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Tehanu · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:14 pm Post subject:

Okay, after washing my metaphorical hands after visiting the Liberal website, I can comment that I noticed there was an article there attacking Pat Martin for being a Conservative in NDP clothing.

Kind of ironic, no?

Hephaestion · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject:

Not to jump down anyone's throat (seriously, I'm *not*, particularly since Berlynn is fairly new and maybe hasn't read all the threads in question), but I noted that the link in the OP in this thread was to hatesite.net (which masquerades as a "Christian" and "pro-life" site).

Well, awhile back, Andy linked to hatesite.net for the sake of a story, and I noted publicly that I wish he wouldn't, comparing them to Free Republic and Freak Dominion. RB (I think it was) agreed with me, and Andy deleted the link, worried that he'd upset me. (It didn't "upset" me; it's just that I find all three of those sites disgusting swillholes, and I hate to make it any easier for people to get to them by providing a link.)

Anyway, later in another thread, pogovio linked to hatesite.net and although he *did* caution that

RP. · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:18 pm Post subject:

WCT, that site you link to has Wayne Easter as "anti-choice," whereas Life Site (which your site links to as a source for their conclusion) says this about Wayne Easter:

West Coast Tiger · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:18 pm Post subject:

West Coast Tiger · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject:

[Edit]
No idea about this. Confused

Where can we get a decent list???

/drift

Heph, I see what you're saying. There's no other link out there right now as far as I can tell -- but I assume the goods must be in the gov't records. I don't know... I gather we will either have to make a list as you suggest as 'hate sites we don't link to' or allow everything... I'm not keen on allowing everything... but at the moment, we don't have much else for this story. Got any ideas, folks?
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Triz · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject:

Considering I was just complaining about ndp.ca for doing exactly that ... except not really, because that was all that was available to Berlynn and the NDP had had some time to prepare their own report of the march instead of linking to anti-choice site's version (that really is bizarre!).
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West Coast Tiger · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:30 pm Post subject:

Tehanu · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:30 pm Post subject:

One solution is to not link to it directly (especially since I believe this helps pump up their hits/search engine profile), but rather tell people how to get there if they're interested in visiting such a place. As in "Lifesite, a really disgusting website that promotes bigotry, has an article about a new Liberal private member's bill to make late-term abortions illegal. I'm not going to link to it, but you can google it if you're really interested." Then include a summary or a quote so that people will know the pertinent details without actually having to visit the site.

As an aside, landing on bad sites is one of the reasons why some people hate things like tinurl.com, because they can't tell what site they'll be directed to if they click on it. Our lovely forum software solves the problem of long urls without needing to use tinurl, though. [hugs forum software]

West Coast Tiger · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:39 pm Post subject:

okay... I'll clean up those links.
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Hephaestion · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:40 pm Post subject:

I like your suggestion, Tehanu. But I reiterate... should we have a formal list?

I'd say if we're *going* to "have a list", better it be written than unwritten. And if we *do*, I'd like to see hatesite.net ON that list.
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Triz · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject:

Me too! Shall I e ndp.ca to ask if they will do the same?
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Tehanu · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject:

The sad thing is, there are so many hateful sites out there that the list could never be exhaustive. I'd be more interested in having in the Intros/FAQ something along the lines of:

Hephaestion · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:44 pm Post subject:

West Coast Tiger · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:47 pm Post subject:

Red T shirt · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:57 pm Post subject:

Could we just coy and paste the article in full and leave out the link? You could post a message stating that the link has been left off because the sight is reprehensible.
Edited to add that I have sent my letter of complaint to Mr. Steckle.

Tehanu · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject:

Berlynn · Member Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 42 Location: SK

Uh, folks, you seem more caught up with internal goings-on than activism. I've since blogged the call to action. So please start sending those messages.
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West Coast Tiger · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:55 pm Post subject:

Wow Berlynn! Shocked

You put that page together sooooooo fast!! I am mega impressed. Very Happy

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~ Rational ravings from a relative stranger in a troubled paradise. ~

Tehanu · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:06 pm Post subject:

And I'm looking forward to a front page with action alerts! (Hint, hint).

Berlynn, don't assume that many of us haven't been busily contacting our MPs while discussing internal stuff. Right, everyone? (nag, nag).

West Coast Tiger · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:10 pm Post subject:

Boze · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:16 pm Post subject:

I wouldn't expect NDP.ca to refrain from linking to "bad" sites. And why should we? It's not like their awful content will seep back into this site through the link or something. Confused

As for the bill: the Liberals have long had a socially conservative wing that is always doing stuff like this, and is always ostracized by the rest of their party (rightly).

Berlynn · Member Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 42 Location: SK

Apologies if I've offended. But when I have my activist hat on, I sometimes expect others to do likewise...

As for the Liberals, may they never see another majority government and may PMS never see one either.
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Hephaestion · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:28 pm Post subject:

West Coast Tiger · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:28 pm Post subject:

Berlynn · Member Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 42 Location: SK

Ah, shucks! I'm blushing.
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Tehanu · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:47 pm Post subject:

Ditto to what WCT said -- just wanted you to know that we're on it! And to take the opportunity to encourage others to do the same ...

West Coast Tiger · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:36 pm Post subject:

Still hunting around for a MSM link to this story. Haven't found one yet, but I did find this one concerning Steckle and his views on SSM. Thought I'd link it in:

MP says same-sex marriage debate is over
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Triz · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:00 pm Post subject:

And yet not so! No, not this story, but something from last month on David Akin's blog about Steckle and the secret Pro-Life Caucus with info on some of the prominent assholes ones in it.
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NWOntarian · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:16 pm Post subject:

Text of Bill C-338 from Parliament website

Berlynn · Member Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 42 Location: SK

Oh, that's toooo rich. Blog updated!
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sparqui · Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:32 am Post subject:

Triz · Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:42 am Post subject:

NWO, thanks so much for finding that link. I meant to write that earlier but then got rudely interrupted by the stuff I am actually paid to do. Wink

(or should that be Embarassed

)

Anyway, I've since found out that the continuing obliviousness of the media is even weirder because this bill, under the same scary name, was actually introduced last November and got cut off from moving forward because of the election. You can look here for the Hansard record.

(That's a REALLY long link! A good test for the forum link-shortening software! But I won't tinyurl it).

It's not a great link - it's to the cached file as my computer is behaving badly (this goes so much more smoothly when I do this stuff at work!). I'll see if I can find out more background. I also came across some weird older misrepresentation from Steckle about why women have abortions - I'll try to get a good link to that.

But this is why we have to get angry and upset every damned time Boze. They are just going to keep coming and the moment we get complacent? You get a fiasco like that with the most recent budget - only a radical change to the rights of women is a lot more serious.

ETA: You're right Tehanu! That doesn't seem to be causing sidescroll at all.
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West Coast Tiger · Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:16 am Post subject:

I still haven't found anything about it on the MSM. What a surprise. Rolling Eyes

I do have the How'd They Vote? results, however.

Aside, CBC offers this story: Harper praises 'productive' session in Parliament

Berlynn · Member Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 42 Location: SK

The Harper's done a few things, but this Liberal anti-abortion bill is the nastiest piece of work. It has allowed the rabid anti-choice harassers out of the cage
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Tehanu · Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:22 pm Post subject:

Bleah. I note that one person quoted Margaret Sommerville. Double bleah!

I'm sure the woodwork is seething because all the anti-feminists are just bursting to come crawling out. I still find it mildly surprising that the Libs are letting this idiot go ahead with this. But not too surprising.

Berlynn · Member Joined: 04 May 2006 Posts: 42 Location: SK

I hear Somerville was awarded an honourary doctorate from a Canadian university (Ryerson, was it?) That's double bleh!

I took a look at Suzie's blog and found this link to contain an interesting tidbit:

Tehanu · Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:56 pm Post subject:

West Coast Tiger · Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject:

Thought this Wiki article should be placed here. The opinion polls are particularly relevant.

From what I can see, a women's right to choose is still in the majority. (Not including hate group polls I've seen, of course Rolling Eyes

) But that doesn't mean the fight is over on this one... There are still plenty of people out there that would love to strip women of their right to choose.

Here's a little CBC Timeline on Abortion Rights and the long hard battle it has been.

Women across Canada should not take the threat passively. This is a genuine threat to our rights and control over our bodies.
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~ Rational ravings from a relative stranger in a troubled paradise. ~