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| Given what this country is doing should we be celebrating Canada Day this year? |
| yes |
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33% |
[ 3 ] |
| no |
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66% |
[ 6 ] |
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| Total Votes : 9 |
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Sean in Ottawa
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 Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:07 am Post subject: July First |
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Canada is telling the world that even in the event of a heart attack it will deny health care to refugees from countries to be decided by the Minister.
Isn't it bad taste to celebrate Canada Day?
What exactly are we celebrating?
I am asking seriously.
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Sean in Ottawa
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:10 am Post subject: |
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http://embassymag.ca/page/view/creskey-06-27-2012
"The proposed changes would cut payments for essential medicines for all refugees and virtually all health care for many. Diabetics would no longer receive insulin. Cancer, high blood pressure, asthma and other non-public-health-threat medications would be cut.
Refugees claimed by the minister to be from so-called "safe countries" would be denied health care even in a crisis situation such as a heart attack. Calling to mind the axiom that an attack on the weakest is ultimately an attack on the whole society, Dr. Tyndall said he sees the new anti-refugee rules as a threat against the entire Canadian health-care system."
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Timebandit
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Sean in Ottawa
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:43 am Post subject: |
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I saw it and put it on my facebook page.
Thanks
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Sean in Ottawa
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Caissa
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| I'm not letting Harper define the country I live in. |
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Sean in Ottawa
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Joined: 13 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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No we the people of Canada define it by letting Harper do this without much of a protest. I live in Ottawa-- I'm not seeing much protest here to the jettisoning of Canada's humanity and compassion.
Being observers is being complicit. I don't think there is a majority that is speaking up on this.
Canada is not Nazi Germany where people who oppose the government are at grave risk to themselves. People often have blamed the people of Germany at that time for tolerating Hitler when to oppose him was risking life. Most Canadians are not opposing Harper and many agree with him. In Canada the risk you put yourselves to in opposition to the government is inconvenience not bodily harm. We are letting our democratic institutions fail without protest as well. Unless Canadians rise up and fight these changes we have to admit that not only do we accept them, we must wear them as our shame.
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Slumberjack
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Caissa wrote: | | I'm not letting Harper define the country I live in. |
Intriguing. What do you have in mind, or are you able to speak openly at this point?
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Caissa
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Joined: 14 Jun 2006
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Location: Saint John
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| My point was simply that my feelings towards my country will not be defined by the actions of its PM. |
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Slumberjack
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
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Location: squelch~~big waves and high smiles from the stomach and intestine of capital.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Sean in Ottawa wrote: | Canada is not Nazi Germany where people who oppose the government are at grave risk to themselves.
In Canada the risk you put yourselves to in opposition to the government is inconvenience not bodily harm. |
No, Canada is not Nazi Germany. I would argue that the rest of your statement, specifically the two points quoted, appear unqualified by an absence of testimonial experience.
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There is this old notion, Bolshevik, a little frigid for sure; the building of the Party. I think that our present war is about giving new content to this depopulated fiction. |
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Slumberjack
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Location: squelch~~big waves and high smiles from the stomach and intestine of capital.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Caissa wrote: | | My point was simply that my feelings towards my country will not be defined by the actions of its PM. |
In my case, certain persistent feelings toward this country are quite unavoidable, precisely as a result of the actions of the PM, the political establishment as a whole, and the support of the general population towards its perpetuation.
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There is this old notion, Bolshevik, a little frigid for sure; the building of the Party. I think that our present war is about giving new content to this depopulated fiction. |
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Sean in Ottawa
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Joined: 13 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Indeed, my post is meant to be provocative and somewhat rhetorical. I personally will choose not to wear red or associate myself with any patriot-like expressions.
My challenge, in part is to say -- at least -- if you do intend to express any positive feelings for Canada this July 1st then you have a duty to express disapproval somehow somewhere for what is happening in some reasonable way or wear this national shame.
We are not a conquered people and while the last election was dirty, I think it is obvious that significant support went either to the current government or stayed home taking no responsibility for that choice. To that end we are part of a collective-- as I believe we are-- and we therefore share collectively in the decision to not only produce this government but support it with a majority of support or silence.
Canada is a political, social construct, it is also a settler state. We have collective rights which we can assert and we have a collective moral responsibility. If we want to choose to participate in the collective orgy of patriotism, that this year will take on an increasingly military tone, then we ought to accept the full package of responsibilities. If this is not us then why show the patriotic colours and if it is us then we ought to accept what that means and bear the shame.
I do believe that only once Canadians bear collective shame can we combat the greed that has lead us to act as global dilettantes when it comes to our responsibilities to the planet and the other people that live on it.
I feel too guilty to celebrate Canada in the context of our international behaviour to other citizens of the world: refugees would be immigrants who have had their files closed, First Nations we have a responsibility to, our impact on future generations, our own people. You cannot divorce a national construct like a nation from its collective behaviour without completely giving up on social responsibility which is a collective need.
I also do not accept the concept that a person or nation should be judged by comparison to its peers, even assuming that we were better than average, which I no longer think we are. People and collectives should be judged based on their potential not the actual reality of others. Canada is failing to live up to any fair assessment in my opinion and this is why I question a celebration of Canada.
I will celebrate those members of the medical community who have stood up for decency and any person in Canada, Canadian or not, who does the same but I will not celebrate the Canadian collective this year.
As for the implications of opposing the government, I have done so and I have paid I price for that personally but that price is incredibly modest in global terms so this is why I point out that at least for now there are many ways of resisting this government that come with very limited risk and cost. Those who march on the street have the greatest risk but that is not the only way to oppose this government.
I hope that clarifies because I am not suggesting that all opposition is safe here but certainly there are relatively safe options virtually all citizens can participate in.
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al-Qa'bong
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Location: A monistic vulgarity in which nobility and wisdom have been exchanged for a pale belief in progress
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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Nice to have you back, Sean in Ottawa.
I will be celebrating the Harper 1000-Year Government with a torchlight parade down to the Tim Horton, followed by a rally in my backyard.
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"We can't all be Sam the Sham; some of us have to be Pharoahs" Larry, brother of Darrel, and his other brother Daryl |
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Slumberjack
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
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Location: squelch~~big waves and high smiles from the stomach and intestine of capital.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Sean in Ottawa wrote: | | We are not a conquered people and while the last election was dirty, I think it is obvious that significant support went either to the current government or stayed home taking no responsibility for that choice. To that end we are part of a collective-- as I believe we are-- and we therefore share collectively in the decision to not only produce this government but support it with a majority of support or silence. |
I'm inclined to believe that we are conquered, and in the most comprehensive way possible because we keep denying what has been rendered obvious all around. And I don't know if it's fair to assign responsibility to people who fail to make a choice, after realizing there is no practical choice available to them. Governance in our circumstances is produced when people invest their agency into an electoral system hanging out the latest window dressing as democracy. The fault for the current government, the previous Liberal governments, and a potential NDP government, all of which are varying shades of the same thing in these times, resides with people who take the responsibility of maintaining the status quo seriously as a civic duty no matter what. I contend that we should have had a gut full of the 'no matter what' by now.
| Quote: | | We have collective rights which we can assert and we have a collective moral responsibility. |
The moral responsibility in my estimation would be to take no responsibility for any of it. Regardless of the party in question, what we're confronted with today in turn is a succession of occupations through various corporate management teams. We would also do well to question the status of these so called 'rights' when they've been rendered as ephemeral as they have been for so many people, especially everywhere of late. In the North American and European context, rights are conferred only so long as the existing power relationships between government and the people remain undisturbed, meaning in essence they get to do whatever they want, and we're expected to lap it up, on all fours if need be. What we observe as temporary suspensions of rights in certain circumstances, according to the vagaries of state security; mass beatings and round-ups in the street for example; is in fact the normal situation that is held in suspension while people continue to mind their own business about what is happening to them. A vote one way or another changes nothing in that regard.
| Quote: | | I do believe that only once Canadians bear collective shame... |
This shame, if you want to call it that, should really only apply to those who continue to sponsor the events. The voter for instance. Abject indifference then, an effect of the general powerlessness bestowed upon the population, systemically renewed with each election cycle, should logically appear to us as one of many potential responses to over a century of ritualized nonsense.
| Quote: | | I feel too guilty to celebrate Canada in the context of our international behaviour to other citizens of the world: refugees would be immigrants who have had their files closed, First Nations we have a responsibility to, our impact on future generations, our own people. You cannot divorce a national construct like a nation from its collective behaviour without completely giving up on social responsibility which is a collective need. |
I don't feel as guilty anymore about being born into this system, or at least it is becoming less so. I chalk up much of the residual guilt effects to the professional organizations of the left with their diligence in maintaining identity politics and oppression olympics, in tandem with the right it would seem. Outrages aren't so much acknowledged as part and parcel of the system, as they are used to beat people about the head and shoulders with for their inability to properly repent of the original sin of being conditioned from birth into their respective roles in this society. When people correctly bemoan the fact that this is a racialized society for instance, often neglected in the definition is the fact that everyone is racialized in accordance with an assigned value to the system in that regard. Note how the housing bubble became a problem of greed among the minorities, lapped up once again by a relentless conditioning that provides for easy an acceptance of such explanations. The fact that they don't shoot people in the streets here as often as they used to, but retain the right to invade and shoot people in the streets and homes of other countries, only speaks to the requirement of maintaining the sheer facade of democracy here, in order to assist in enabling its outright denial everywhere else. In our experience, it should be clear by now that this general sense of social responsibility, into which far too many it seems insist on dedicating themselves toward infusing everyone with, only serves to maintain what these same people say they would like to see defeated. It seems to me at least that the moral imperative is to once and for all refuse to belly up to this sickening spectacle on the designated occasions, to refuse to lend an ounce of legitimacy to a system that will never earn it in it's own right. I don't know how much more clear that point can be made nowadays, but I'm quite certain they'll spare no effort in keeping us up to date in any event.
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There is this old notion, Bolshevik, a little frigid for sure; the building of the Party. I think that our present war is about giving new content to this depopulated fiction.
Last edited by Slumberjack on Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Slumberjack
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Location: squelch~~big waves and high smiles from the stomach and intestine of capital.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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This is normally where Magoo would come in with a few points of contention.
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There is this old notion, Bolshevik, a little frigid for sure; the building of the Party. I think that our present war is about giving new content to this depopulated fiction. |
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Vundo Draxon
Leftist-rightie and rightist-leftie
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1712
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:13 am Post subject: |
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| Caissa wrote: | | I'm not letting Harper define the country I live in. |
Likewise. No temporary sitting government can redefine the history and no matter how much I dislike the PM or his appointees or their policies or their behaviours this country will not cease to be my home. |
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The Evil Twin
Stoned Immaculate
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 3746
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| al-Qa'bong wrote: |
I will be celebrating the Harper 1000-Year Government with a torchlight parade down to the Tim Horton, followed by a rally in my backyard. |
And don't forget to play Nickelback while you're honoring the thousand year Harper rule. They're his favorite band (which says a lot....eeew!). The good thing though is that you only have to pick one song and play it on an endless loop while telling other people you're playing their full discography. Since every one of their songs sound the same, no one will know the difference.
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al-Qa'bong
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Location: A monistic vulgarity in which nobility and wisdom have been exchanged for a pale belief in progress
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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I'm more of a DOA guy myself (if it's possible to be a DOA guy and still think that Lightfoot is the greatest).
Their song about Margaret Trudeau could be adapted to be about our Leader.
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"The purpose of government is to protect the weak from the powerful" Hammurabi
"We can't all be Sam the Sham; some of us have to be Pharoahs" Larry, brother of Darrel, and his other brother Daryl |
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Cartman
Beyond cuddly
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 8635
Location: OMG! They killed Jason Kenney!
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| It is a damn shame that we are blowing billions on useless fighter jets, futile crime policies, and hosting a swanky useless summit. Otherwise, we could have that massive $20 million a year to show those who have suffered a little bit of humanity. Jason Kenney is a piece of shit. |
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al-Qa'bong
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Location: A monistic vulgarity in which nobility and wisdom have been exchanged for a pale belief in progress
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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Evan Solomon and some high school cheerleader named Katie were on "The House" yesterday, taking up the "Dominion Day/Canada Day" debate, and generally providing concrete examples of the devolution of our educational system, and culture in general, in one of the most vapid conversations I've ever heard on CBC.
Here's a solution. Let's just call it "Harper Day" and forget about it.
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"The purpose of government is to protect the weak from the powerful" Hammurabi
"We can't all be Sam the Sham; some of us have to be Pharoahs" Larry, brother of Darrel, and his other brother Daryl |
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Raos
volatilis vir
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| I had been on the verge of deleting The House from my podcast feedlist for a while (ever since they did a special episode on Alberta politics and neither spoke to/about anyone from, nor even mentioned the existence of, anything outside of the PC party) and finally gave up on it a couple months ago. Sounds like giving it the boot wasn't a mistake. |
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al-Qa'bong
Fulltime enMasse Member
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Posts: 6031
Location: A monistic vulgarity in which nobility and wisdom have been exchanged for a pale belief in progress
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| Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Canada turns 145 years young on Sunday, July 1 and CBC... |
http://www.cbc.ca/canadaday/
That expression has always bugged me, and it bugs me even more when it's used to refer to a country or something that doesn't age and die in a bodily sense.
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"The purpose of government is to protect the weak from the powerful" Hammurabi
"We can't all be Sam the Sham; some of us have to be Pharoahs" Larry, brother of Darrel, and his other brother Daryl |
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Maestro
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Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:20 am Post subject: |
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Credit where credit is due. This piece appeared today in the Globe & Mail. It is...well, read on!
White people, here’s your one-time Canada Day special: Native people apologize back!
| Quote: | Canada Day has always been a mixed bag for Canada’s native people. It makes us think of many things: patriotism, flags, sunburned cottagers, barbeques and exploding fireworks. That’s the good stuff.
For some, though, it’s a reminder that it was four years ago when Prime Minister Stephen Harper apologized to the first nations, Inuit and Métis inhabitants of this country for the imposition and effects of the infamous residential-school system.
Since then, much has been said and written about that apology: Did it go far enough? Too little too late? What’s next? That is something I am afraid only educated, wealthy white men in positions of power can decide.
...in the spirit of cooperation, I would like to offer up these apologies to the people of Canada on behalf of the NAFNIP (native/aboriginal/first nations/indigenous people):
We hereby apologize for being so inconsiderate as to occupy land that, one day, your people would want.
...We apologize for wanting rights to minerals and other natural resources that exist beneath our feet. When you negotiated for our land, you meant to the Earth’s core.
We did not fully comprehend that when we were put on reserves where our rights to the land only went two or three feet below the surface.
Anything that falls down a sewer grate basically belongs to the Federal Government.
...We apologize for being so concerned about the disappearances of so many native women.
We did not realize that the professional attitude of most law-enforcement agencies towards this issue was basically “out of sight, out of mind.” From now on, we’ll report any native women that go missing as white women with dark tans. That should speed up response time.
...We hereby apologize for wanting autonomy from the Federal bureaucracy of the DIA (Department of Indian Affairs). … Wait a minute, make that DIAND (Department of Indian and Northern Development). … Sorry, but I think it’s now called INAC (Indian and Northern Affairs Canada). … No, I have just been informed the Ministry’s official name is now AANDC – short for Aboriginal Affairs Northern Development Canada. ... Now I forget what my original point was.
...Finally, and perhaps most of all, we apologize for helping Canada/Great Britain win the War of 1812 against the Americans. There are many in the native community who feel Barack Obama would be a far more interesting leader than Mr. Harper.
But in our defence, who could have guessed?
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Written by Drew Hayden Taylor. Read the whole thing. It's excellent.
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Refuge
Member
Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 37
Location: Somewhere on stolen land
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| Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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I don't celebrate Canada day. I will one day celebrate Canada, even if the government is making idiotic decisions only if they follow through on the commitments to FN people to start this country.
It's kinda like if they bought a house and never paid for it. I would never go to a housewarming party until they paid the lease or sale price to the family now living on the lawn with a sign that says please pay us so that we can get on with our lives. They don't really own it and Canada, in my opinion, isn't really Canada yet. |
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