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thwap
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 Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:37 am Post subject: Nazis and Tea Party Republicans - Is There a Difference? |
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Some people have said that human civilization has tipped over the precipice. (Right-wing trolls gibber idiotically about nothing in particular.)
Watching the spectacle of the Repugnicans, ... sorry, the Republican Party of the USA pandering to the death-happy, blood-lusting, Christo-fascist sludge of the Koch Brothers' "Tea-Party," I'm forced to think of the thick-necked, red-faced, thuggish, racist, incoherent yammering stooges of the German Nazi Party seig-heiling their way into Germany's cataclysm of hatred and destruction.
(Oh, I know, I know, "Godwin's Law" and all that. But if I'm going to be called a Stalinist-Nazi all the time, I figure I should just come out and say it.)
Anyway, ... that aside, I will concede one important difference between the present Tea-Party Republican Party and the Nazis. This being that the Nazis were able to lift Germany out of the Great Depression (at least temporarily), whereas the Tea-Party Repugs are merrily dragging their country (and everyone else) into another Great Depression.
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The Evil Twin
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:54 am Post subject: |
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I think one key difference is that the Nazis had a central set of core beliefs and an ideology (sure a racist, genocidal ideology, but an ideology nonetheless). The Tea Party types OTOH are only linked by what they hate: Obama-Clinton style centrist liberals. They are divided between Ron Paul style liberterians, Pat Buchanan style neo-isolationists, Alex Jones style conspiracy nuts and Michele Bachmann style theocons. They have no coherent ideology other than hating liberal Democrats (who they incorrectly name "communists" and "socialists").
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al-Qa'bong
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:01 am Post subject: |
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Nazis had a sense of style. They understood the meaning of "spectacle."
Teabagger gatherings look like garage sales.
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The Evil Twin
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| al-Qa'bong wrote: | Nazis had a sense of style. They understood the meaning of "spectacle."
Teabagger gatherings look like garage sales. |
Definitely. I highly doubt that we'll ever see a modern equivalent of Leni Riefenstahl produce a "Tea Party" version of "Triumph of the Will".
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thwap
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Ho-hum.
(MEBBEE YERRRITE)
WTF???
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Slumberjack
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:35 am Post subject: |
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No Nazi or Tea Party rally is complete without large flags, and white dudes in hats.
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There is this old notion, Bolshevik, a little frigid for sure; the building of the Party. I think that our present war is about giving new content to this depopulated fiction. |
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thwap
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:20 am Post subject: |
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In all seriousness though, Al Q took me to task for mocking the harper back-benchers and under-estimating their danger.
I did mock them but my real intent was to show that having been given majority gov't status by our debased political culture, that they won't be so willing to restrain themselves.
The promised land has arrived for these shit-heads.
And I really have been reading and studying WW2 for the past while and seeing parallels between the disasters of the the 1930s and 1940s and today.
If you haven't already, (and i haven't finished it) read this ...
http://www.adbusters.org/magazine/88/chris-hedges.html
| Quote: | | We stand on the cusp of one of the bleakest periods in human history when the bright lights of a civilization blink out and we will descend for decades, if not centuries, into barbarity. The elites have successfully convinced us that we no longer have the capacity to understand the revealed truths presented before us or to fight back against the chaos caused by economic and environmental catastrophe. As long as the mass of bewildered and frightened people, fed images that permit them to perpetually hallucinate, exist in this state of barbarism, they may periodically strike out with a blind fury against increased state repression, widespread poverty and food shortages. But they will lack the ability and self-confidence to challenge in big and small ways the structures of control. The fantasy of widespread popular revolts and mass movements breaking the hegemony of the corporate state is just that – a fantasy. |
And thinking about that and then stuff like this ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy9TvrSGVHE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocKFSLsZnUo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpyCxAq13Mc
That these pieces of shit are enabled and organized to prevail ... not us.
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Slumberjack
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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Fascism merely exchanged addresses...from Rome and Berlin to Washington. From there it began the work of setting up franchises in practically every location around the globe where such an investment bore the promise of a profitable rate of return. Western populations have gone right along, with the struggle for survival on this planet always being laid down by our protectors in terms of us against 'them,' reinforced every waking day by the corporatist media. Here in Canada during the last 40 years we've seen martial law being enacted with nation wide applicability, extrajudicial security certificates, law enforcement complicity with rendering citizens to dungeons around the world where they torture people into confessions, warrantless wiretapping, participation in regime change, imperial warfare with the express aim of lucrative resource extraction from conquered and occupied countries, hatemongering and the division of communities by operatives of the right, a media apparatus operating 24/7 in such a manner that Goebbels would have been proud to have placed his seal of approval on. In BC, a recent speech from the throne included a promise to televise the NHL riot trials, harkening back to the age, if not precisely in spectacular form, then in function, of Robert-Francois Damiens. Inexplicably, we're still seen as one of the good cops by many in the world. We're the truncheon standing next to other nations laying about the world with a bull whip. We're not on the cusp of Fascism, nor are we on a trajectory leading in,....being well situated inside as we have been for decades, with many of us knowing of no other existence.
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There is this old notion, Bolshevik, a little frigid for sure; the building of the Party. I think that our present war is about giving new content to this depopulated fiction.
Last edited by Slumberjack on Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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thwap
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Slumberjack,
Yes and no.
I think the real reasons that Britain and France had trouble with Hitler's Germany was because through conquering all of Europe, Germany would upset the balance of power and threaten their own positions.
To a lesser degree, I think Winston Churchill was troubled by the way that Hitler treated the other white people of Europe, as well as by the way Hitler debased the political-intellectual culture of the white people of Germany. I believe also that Churchill was already an ally of the Jews (at least the "Westernized" ones) who were treated most deplorably of all. And, finally, Churchill loved war.
There's a dominant interpretation that Britain and France tried to steer Hitler's ambitions towards the Soviet Union although historian Bruce Strang has an article somewhere that I started (but got too busy to finish) which throws cold water on that story.
I think Roosevelt's main problems with Nazi Germany was the same as his problem with Japan: They threatened the absolute freedom of action that the USA enjoyed in many areas around the world. (The USA's other main problem with Japan was the racist's inability to tolerate an "other" who they loathed being able to exercise any sort of independent action. With Germany I think there was a genuine trepidation with an nakedly militaristic and expansionist power becoming even more powerful.)
I think the best description of the monstrosity of late-capitalist political culture in the USA is "Inverted Totalitarianism":
| Quote: | Given the transformations that Superpower has undergone during the military mobilization required to fight the Axis powers, and during the subsequent campaign of containing the Soviet Union during the Cold War, does Superpower continue to resemble a liberal democracy domestically, or is it itself taking on totalitarian tendencies? Wolin suggests that the latter possibility is closer to the truth:
While the versions of totalitarianism represented by Nazism and Fascism consolidated power by suppressing liberal political practices that had sunk only shallow cultural roots, Superpower represents a drive towards totality that draws from the setting where liberalism and democracy have been established for more than two centuries. It is Nazism turned upside-down, “inverted totalitarianism.” While it is a system that aspires to totality, it is driven by an ideology of the cost-effective rather than of a “master race” (Herrenvolk), by the material rather than the “ideal.”[6]
There are three main ways in which inverted totalitarianism is the inverted form of classical totalitarianism. First, whereas in Nazi Germany the state dominated economic actors, in inverted totalitarianism corporations and their lobbying dominate the Superpower, with the government acting as the servant of large corporations. This isn't considered corruption, but "normal".[7]
Second, while the Nazi regime aimed at the constant political mobilization of the population, with its Nuremberg rallies, Hitler Youth, and so on, inverted totalitarianism aims for the mass of the population to be in a persistent state of political apathy. The only type of political activity expected or desired from the citizenry is voting. Low electoral turnouts are favorably received as an indication that the bulk of the population has given up hope that the government will ever help them.[8] Third, while the Nazis openly mocked democracy, Superpower maintains the conceit that it is the model of democracy for the whole world:[9] |
I would say that the 30% support that the Repugs enjoy mirrors the same low-level of intellectual ability of the 30% of German voters who backed Hitler.
What they share is that they're people operating on the bad side of the intellectual bell curve being exploited by a tiny elite. Where they differ is on the symbols and the ranting slogans and the uses to which their [deluded, disgusting] elite leaders put them to.
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Slumberjack
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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For the most part I see nothing to add or subtract from these descriptions, except for the following:
| Quote: | | The USA's other main problem with Japan was the racist's inability to tolerate an "other" who they loathed being able to exercise any sort of independent action. |
America and gunboat diplomacy with Japan dates back to at least the Perry Expedition, where an American naval fleet forced trading relations upon them by aiming ship cannons at the population of their capital city, which was known as Edo in those day.
| Quote: | | While it is a system that aspires to totality, it is driven by an ideology of the cost-effective rather than of a “master race” (Herrenvolk), by the material rather than the “ideal. |
I don't know about that. The tea party crowd have been easily convinced, due in large part to the racist way of things it seems in the mainly southern jurisdictions, that their white tinted exceptionalism is under as much threat as the German volk were of continental marginalization and eventual displacement as a result of non-white migration, threatened on all sides by white traitors in the form of socialists and communists consorting with and encouraging the non-white hordes, complete with a malevolent societal undercurrent in the form of an enemy elevated above all others...which in America's case is depicted as the Muslim. Along with all of that, they see a government betraying everything white ancestry has long worked to accomplish. As to the respective methodologies and nuances between Nazism and white American exceptionalism as a tool in the hands of the elite, certainly there are structural differences. One cannot openly impose a fuhrerprinzip based ideology upon a population indoctrinated for generations with notions of liberty and freedom. For that you need to maintain at the very least the facade of democratic institutions, or as the Republicans would suggest, the promise of having democratic institutions returned to their rightful owners...the freedom loving voters. As to what the imperial oligarchy in the US strives to achieve by using such tools at their disposal, it is practically the same as the German industrialists and financiers, who indexed and catalogued the material worth of European countries prior to invasion.
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There is this old notion, Bolshevik, a little frigid for sure; the building of the Party. I think that our present war is about giving new content to this depopulated fiction. |
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thwap
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| Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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O yeah, the racism go way back.
Re: Democracy vs. Fuhererer [sp?] - yep. inverted totalitarianism.
In the end, truncheon to the head feel same way.
now i go away for day.
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al-Qa'bong
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| thwap wrote: | In the end, truncheon to the head feel same way.
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Yup, whether wielded by a religious zealot or a zealot by another name.
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"We can't all be Sam the Sham; some of us have to be Pharoahs" Larry, brother of Darrel, and his other brother Daryl |
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Slumberjack
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| al-Qa'bong wrote: | | Yup, whether wielded by a religious zealot or a zealot by another name. |
You'd be hard pressed to find someone in history who inflicted their zealotry in the name of atheism. There was always another cause. |
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6079_Smith_W
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Slumberjack wrote: |
You'd be hard pressed to find someone in history who inflicted their zealotry in the name of atheism. There was always another cause. |
There were a few, but we may as well talk about that somewhere else.
Why I actually wanted to post is to point out that the Nazis and TeaParty may both be to the right of the spectrum, but that is where the similarities end.
I don't see anything fascist about them at all. They are right wing libertarian.
If anything, I would say the fundamentalist christian right has some strong fascist elements, so certainly there is some overlap.
But the teaparty, like a lot of the U.S. right wing, was built on suspicion of authority, libertarian ideals and a desire for small govenrment. They are a grassroots organization, without a clear leader and a central dogma - which is the hallmark of fascism.
Do I think some fascist (or more likely, fundamentalist theocratic) political movement might come along and exploit the groundwork laid by the teaparty? Very possibly. But I think some Ayn Randian system in which corporations control everything is a more natural offshoot of their ideology than fascism.
It is difficult, because I think the more religious among them mistrust political power, but would support if blindly if it were run by "god".
Part of the reason I think they will eventually fail and be replaced by something else is that suspicion of authority. Anyone in that organization who got enough power would wind up being seen as another authority figure to be knocked down. |
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al-Qa'bong
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Slumberjack wrote: | | al-Qa'bong wrote: | | Yup, whether wielded by a religious zealot or a zealot by another name. |
You'd be hard pressed to find someone in history who inflicted their zealotry in the name of atheism. There was always another cause. |
Atheism schmaethism, zealous belief is the question.
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Senor Magoo
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I don't see anything fascist about them at all. They are right wing libertarian.
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"Nazi" and "Fascist" make it to 9.5 on the scare-o-meter.
"right wing libertarian" barely makes the needle move.
Let's be honest here -- the Tea Party isn't being compared to the Nazis in an honest attempt to understand them. They're being compared to the Nazis for dramatic effect. The question isn't whether or not their politics are similar, the question (rhetorical, of course) is "but aren't they just as malevolent and evil?"
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Slumberjack
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps this might assist in our clarifications. Using these points exclusively it would be difficult to avoid identifying the USA under the two party system, and Canada under a Conservative or Liberal government (the NDP hasn't actually had it's turn just yet] as Fascist regimes, and the people who support them as supporters of Fascism.
| Quote: | Fourteen Defining Characteristics Of Fascism
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections. |
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Senor Magoo
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Using these points exclusively it would be difficult to avoid identifying the USA under the two party system, and Canada under a Conservative or Liberal government (the NDP hasn't actually had it's turn just yet] as Fascist regimes, and the people who support them as supporters of Fascism.
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Credibility -1
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Slumberjack
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Senor Magoo wrote: | | Credibility -1 |
Try reading down through the list a second time without coke bottle thick glasses, and see if those points mutually correspond with our historical knowledge of Fascism, and to any North American situations you may be familiar with. |
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Senor Magoo
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - We have a flag, and it's flown outside of Parliament, Schools and municipal offices. Canadians, generally speaking, don't wrap themselves in the flag, nor are we typically compelled to fly a flag, salute a flag or otherwise worship one.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Our Charter recognizes fundamental freedoms, democratic rights, legal rights and equality rights.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - Canadians, last I checked, haven't been rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc. For the most part, we don't do "frenzy".
4. Supremacy of the Military - Canada spends about 1% of its GDP on the military -- less than England, France, Germany and those fascist Japanese.
5. Rampant Sexism - Women are elected to all levels of government in Canada. Not only are divorce, abortion and homosexuality not illegal, Canada was a world leader in recognizing equal marriage.
6. Controlled Mass Media - We have the CBC. The right insists that the CBC is a mouthpiece for socialism and the left insists that the CBC licks the boots of the corporate elite. Most Canadians know the CBC as the hockey channel, not the state-controlled propaganda machine.
7. Obsession with National Security - What is this even supposed to mean? Isn't all security driven by fear? Is there a nation somewhere with NO security? A nation that tells its citizens "who needs border guards... nobody would ever harm us"?
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Stephen Harper is an admitted Christian. So was Tommy Douglas. Other than that, this dog won't hunt.
9. Corporate Power is Protected - Here in Canada it's voters who put a party in power. Remember the ONDP in 1995? That wasn't the business elites.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed - I think it's pretty self-evident that labour unions haven't been driven from Canada.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Oh, did Stephen Harper cut some funding for more Meat Dresses? Does that mean we're living under the jackboot of fascism now? LOL!
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - In Canada , the police are not given almost limitless power to enforce laws. There is no national police force with virtually unlimited power in Canada.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - I suppose there's the Senate! 
14. Fraudulent Elections - Sham elections, assassinations, media manipulation -- all that comes to mind here is that time that Elizabeth May wasn't invited to the televised debates. Canadians not only have free and fair elections, some of us were even given opportunities to change how those elections are conducted Provincially, and we chose to stick with the status quo.
Sorry, but without being ridiculous about it, or actively seeking to TRY to label Canada as fascist, I really can't see how these 14 criteria point the finger at us.
Is it possible that maybe you WANT to be able to say we're fascist? For effect, maybe? Because it's neither accurate nor honest.
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Raos
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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One could agree and disagree on this or that point, but in general I'd say it's a matter of degree. We may not be as bad (yet) as certain extreme contemporary or historical examples, but that's not exactly the same as wholly innocent.
| Senor Magoo wrote: | | 2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Our Charter recognizes fundamental freedoms, democratic rights, legal rights and equality rights. |
And the codified separation of church and state south of the border makes them immune to problems on the #8 front? The government abstained from voting on the right to clean water and sanitation at the UN, has violated and undermined rights of assembly and free (critical) speech.
| Senor Magoo wrote: | | 4. Supremacy of the Military - Canada spends about 1% of its GDP on the military -- less than England, France, Germany and those fascist Japanese. |
That budget ain't exactly shrinking, and the salient point of the criterion was not "more disproportionately than anyone else". I don't think there's much question that Harper is both inflating priority (in both attention and funding) of the military and glamorizing it.
| Senor Magoo wrote: | | 7. Obsession with National Security - What is this even supposed to mean? Isn't all security driven by fear? Is there a nation somewhere with NO security? A nation that tells its citizens "who needs border guards... nobody would ever harm us"? |
Existence=automatic obsession? Really? You can admit no middle ground between the complete absence of, and paranoid fixation on, security?
| Senor Magoo wrote: | | 9. Corporate Power is Protected - Here in Canada it's voters who put a party in power. Remember the ONDP in 1995? That wasn't the business elites. |
And ergo as an elected government it is fundamentally not possible that corporate interests have undue influence or consideration in governance?
| Senor Magoo wrote: | | 10. Labor Power is Suppressed - I think it's pretty self-evident that labour unions haven't been driven from Canada. |
Any anything short of having been entirely driven out of the country of course means that their position is hunky dory. The government's interference in recent disputes involving collective bargaining mean nothing, since the unions haven't all been driven out of the country?
"It could be worse" does not, by any stretch, mean "there's nothing wrong". |
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Senor Magoo
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | "It could be worse" does not, by any stretch, mean "there's nothing wrong". |
And neither does "there's room for improvement" mean "IT'S FASCISM!!!"
I'm not saying that the current government is doing a bang-up job. I'm saying it's laughable to call it fascist.
Y'know how totally stupid Tea Partiers look when they call Obama a Socialist? Calling our government (or for that matter, Obama's) fascist looks just as stupid. Does the left want to look that stupid?
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Slumberjack
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Posts: 918
Location: squelch~~big waves and high smiles from the stomach and intestine of capital.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| Senor Magoo wrote: |
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - We have a flag, and it's flown outside of Parliament, Schools and municipal offices. Canadians, generally speaking, don't wrap themselves in the flag, nor are we typically compelled to fly a flag, salute a flag or otherwise worship one. |
Harper wants to re-enact the War of 1812. The media, which is an apparatus of the corporate based power structure, routinely glamourizes our position within the world as leading this or that index while people live in tarpaulin shacks in the north, and on the streets of the cities. The national press gallery has not one flag as a backdrop, but an entire phalanx of them. We glorify our participation in imperial projects around the world. We certainly have enough convincing elements in my estimation.
| Quote: | | 2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Our Charter recognizes fundamental freedoms, democratic rights, legal rights and equality rights. |
Ever heard of Maher Arar, Omar Khadr, and the other exceptions made under the auspices of national security certificates? And you must have completely tuned out the entire G20 episode and other events where fundamental freedoms were trampled under in this country to protect corporatism from public opinion in the streets. And this is before we begin to discuss the daily abuses of the police against marginalized and disenfranchised citizens and communities. We couldn't refer to it as myopia on your part, because both the near and the far appear blurred beyond all recognition within your narrow field of vision.
| Quote: | | 3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - Canadians, last I checked, haven't been rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc. For the most part, we don't do "frenzy". |
Because the corporate media haven't been grooming the population for the past decade and more regarding the 'Islamofacist' enemy and such within. The RCMP are reduced on occasion to assisting in their creation when none materialize on their own.
| Quote: | | 4. Supremacy of the Military - Canada spends about 1% of its GDP on the military -- less than England, France, Germany and those fascist Japanese. |
The government and the media have been glorifying the military at every opportunity during the past 10 years. Rick Hillier once enjoyed more face time before the cameras than the MND himself.
| Quote: | | 5. Rampant Sexism - Women are elected to all levels of government in Canada. Not only are divorce, abortion and homosexuality not illegal, Canada was a world leader in recognizing equal marriage. |
This can certainly apply in any country, but the glass ceiling exists practically everywhere for women when you consider the demographics.
| Quote: | | 6. Controlled Mass Media - We have the CBC. The right insists that the CBC is a mouthpiece for socialism and the left insists that the CBC licks the boots of the corporate elite. Most Canadians know the CBC as the hockey channel, not the state-controlled propaganda machine. |
None of that changes the fact that the CBC, along with the business owned media have been carrying the water for neo-liberalism and neo-colonialism for some time.
| Quote: | | 7. Obsession with National Security - What is this even supposed to mean? Isn't all security driven by fear? Is there a nation somewhere with NO security? A nation that tells its citizens "who needs border guards... nobody would ever harm us"? |
Security is driven by instilled fear. We're not even confident in our own abilities in this regard apparently. We need US Homeland Security agents in our trading hubs just to make sure.
| Quote: | | 8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Stephen Harper is an admitted Christian. So was Tommy Douglas. Other than that, this dog won't hunt. |
Well, I hope the dogs who populate Harper's newly minted religious affairs office won't be hunting.
| Quote: | | 9. Corporate Power is Protected - Here in Canada it's voters who put a party in power. Remember the ONDP in 1995? That wasn't the business elites. |
You clearly don't understand how political power is bought and paid for in this country, and I don't have time right now to explain it for you. You're using Bob Rae as a counterpoint?
| Quote: | | 10. Labor Power is Suppressed - I think it's pretty self-evident that labour unions haven't been driven from Canada. |
Labour today means salvaging the remains of collective bargaining from the processes of globalization. It's difficult to describe it today as representing a serious threat to corporatism.
| Quote: | | 11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Oh, did Stephen Harper cut some funding for more Meat Dresses? Does that mean we're living under the jackboot of fascism now? LOL! |
And yet Harper has cut funding for sciences and arts during his tenure.
| Quote: | | 12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - In Canada , the police are not given almost limitless power to enforce laws. There is no national police force with virtually unlimited power in Canada. |
New prisons, the end of two for one sentencing, tougher penalties for smoking grass, and a national police apparatus that can create 'this is not Canada' zones practically anywhere the politicans permit them.
| Quote: | | 13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - I suppose there's the Senate! |
Clement and Gagliano are not senators. Ever heard of them.
| Quote: | | 14. Fraudulent Elections - Sham elections, assassinations, media manipulation -- all that comes to mind here is that time that Elizabeth May wasn't invited to the televised debates. Canadians not only have free and fair elections, some of us were even given opportunities to change how those elections are conducted Provincially, and we chose to stick with the status quo. |
Our electoral process is a sham. 39% gives a gang of criminals and cronies the right to majority rule for four stinking years.
| Quote: | | Is it possible that maybe you WANT to be able to say we're fascist? For effect, maybe? Because it's neither accurate nor honest. |
Actually I would prefer not to make the comparisons, but when it's staring us in the face every day its difficult to avoid doing so entirely. Even if none of it were true, the fact of the matter is that we are allied shoulder to shoulder in every possible way with the ever more convincingly fascist nation to our south, and so when you roll with fascists, you are one by association in letter and spirit. |
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6079_Smith_W
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2011
Posts: 571
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| Senor Magoo wrote: | | Quote: | I don't see anything fascist about them at all. They are right wing libertarian.
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"Nazi" and "Fascist" make it to 9.5 on the scare-o-meter.
"right wing libertarian" barely makes the needle move.
Let's be honest here -- the Tea Party isn't being compared to the Nazis in an honest attempt to understand them. They're being compared to the Nazis for dramatic effect. The question isn't whether or not their politics are similar, the question (rhetorical, of course) is "but aren't they just as malevolent and evil?" |
Exactly.
I don't really want to get into another pointless discussion of what fascism is, because I have been around the block a few times on that question with some of the people here.
But the important distinction between tea partiers and fascists is in their attitude toward authority and concentration of power.
When we start seeing tea partiers following one single leader, organizing into one nation-wide hierarchical party, and calling for an end to other political parties then maybe you can start talking about fascism.
As I said, I think there are elements of fascism in some tea party supporters' promotion of a religious takeover of the state, but in terms of their own political philosophy they are structurally completely the opposite of fascist.
Hell, they can't even decide which candidate from another party to support in one state: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2012/01/20121188595330144... |
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Slumberjack
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Posts: 918
Location: squelch~~big waves and high smiles from the stomach and intestine of capital.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| Decisions decisions. Back in the day for the average German contemplating joining up with the National Socialist party..it was a real struggle for many to decide between the Bavarian wing led by Hitler, or to get down and dirty with Strasser and Goebbels in the north, where they took the socialist stuff a little too seriously in the early days. |
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