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Super-skinny models booted in Spain
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Tehanu
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:47 pm    Post subject: Super-skinny models booted in Spain Reply with quote

A Spanish fashion show has decided that models who are too thin are being barred from participating. They've set a minimum BMI of 18 (18.5-24.9 is considered "healthy"). And apparently about 30% of the models that had been booked failed.

A step in the right direction? Maybe. Body image issues are a huge issue, although most research on eating disorders shows that it's not just the social pressure of seeing emaciated pop culture icons, but a rather complex psychological phenomenon having to do with control.

And there's no question in my mind that fashion shows in general do little to promote the emancipation of women.

Still, better to head towards a slightly more realistic portrayal of women, I guess. Bit of a blow to models who've been starving themselves, though.

Quote:
MADRID, Spain -- Spain's top fashion show has turned away a slew of models on grounds they are too skinny - an unprecedented swipe at body images blamed for encouraging eating disorders among young people.

... The association said Friday it wanted models at the show running from Sept. 18-22 to project "an image of beauty and health" and shun a gaunt, emaciated look.

... Last year's show, also called Madrid Fashion Week, drew protests from medical associations and women's advocacy groups because some of the models were positively bone-thin.

... Del Pozo said this was the first time skinny models have been snubbed at a major international fashion show.

... The body mass index is a tool for doctors who study obesity. It is calculated by dividing weight in pounds by height in inches squared, and multiplying that total by 703.

If the resulting number is between 18.5 and 24.9, the person's weight is normal. Below 18.5 they are underweight. In the case of the Madrid show, organizers rejected women with indices under 18.


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Norse of 60
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Confused

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Tehanu
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Norse of 60 wrote:
The numbers I heard pointed to a 5'9" model as being no lighter than 123 lbs which to me still sound very thin.


Yup. I'm slightly taller than that and I think the last time I saw 123 pounds I was about 10 years old.

Which is one reason why I'm a bit ambivalent about this. 18 on the BMI (and there are serious questions about the BMI as a measurement as well) is still very low. Which means, of course, that the women BELOW 18 are really, really thin.
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Raos
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Norse of 60 wrote:
The numbers I heard pointed to a 5'9" model as being no lighter than 123 lbs which to me still sound very thin.


That doesn't sound especially thin to me. I'm just about 5'8", and I was 130lbs right through high school. I wasn't especially scrawny, either.
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Tehanu
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have big bones Wink

According to the NIH Dept. of Health BMI calculater, Raos, you'd have been 19.5.
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Raos
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But my point is that I was certainly not bordering on unhealthily thin at that point. I've never really liked the BMI index. I look much the same now as I did in high school, but I have more muscle mass instead of padding, and my BMI is up to a 22.7 so I'm now apparently nearly as close to being overweight now as I was to being underweight in highschool. My body shape really is almost identical to when I was in highschool.

I also remember about a year or two ago, when I was on a sports team, we had a nutrition seminar around the beginning of the year, and we all checked our BMI's on a chart, and I was the only guy on the team that had a BMI in the "healthy" range. Every other guy on the team was either in the "overweight" range, or a few into the "obese" range. None of them were "obese", they were muscular. Hell, you wouldn't call any of them "overweight" if you saw them, by any stretch of the imagination.

Now I'm not trying to say that underweight models are a healthy image to protray, but I know a more than enough people who fall under a "healthy" BMI without being what I think is unhealthy, as well as people that go over their BMI without being what I'd consider unhealthy.
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Tehanu
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, from what I know of it the BMI is a pretty sucky measurement; it gives a general idea but doesn't take into account various other factors, such as age, gender, muscle-fat ratio, bone density, etc. So you could have a fairly low or high BMI and be fit as a fiddle.

That said, BMI or other measurement, I find it interesting that there's an awareness of the unhealthiness of models starving themselves to fit into bizarre clothes that nobody is likely to wear ... (did I mention I'm not nuts about the fashion industry? Mr. Green)
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tehanu wrote:
Oh, from what I know of it the BMI is a pretty sucky measurement; it gives a general idea but doesn't take into account various other factors, such as age, gender, muscle-fat ratio, bone density, etc. So you could have a fairly low or high BMI and be fit as a fiddle.

That said, BMI or other measurement, I find it interesting that there's an awareness of the unhealthiness of models starving themselves to fit into bizarre clothes that nobody is likely to wear ... (did I mention I'm not nuts about the fashion industry? Mr. Green)


That's right Tehanu. During his competition days Arnold had an average BMI of 33.4. According to the BM Index he was classed as obese. Doesn't look that obese to me.

BMI is actually being taught in University as a debunked, and oversimplified method of measuring healthy body measurements. It is being replaced by more accurate methods, the caliper testing being the most popular.

As for the models, good. Only good can come from less waifs collapsing from malnutrition on the runway.
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Kali
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a curvy lady (and most of the time proud of it!!) and my BMI says I am overweight (26.3). I haven't seen 123 lbs since I was overly busy and underly fed in high school (I know its not a word). Even then, since I was playing and coaching soccer, my weight would have been 'high', but my muscle mass was a heck of a lot better than it is now (officially 10 years later). The idea of the BMI is just silly, like Tehanu said earlier, it misses A LOT of factors.

As for the idea that the models are now going to have to put on a little weight - good!! About damn time - I wish that idea would spread over here like wildfire, but I will not hold my breath and wait. Personally, seeing uber skinny models doesn't cause my unhappiness with my body, it makes me angry that other people judge my curves against that of a starving rail. It makes me angry that when shopping for pants I have to settle for ones that don't look good on curves, because the clothing industry thinks that we are all cardboard cutouts of pre-pubescent boys (which is what current models look like to me!). It makes me angry that I end up feeling abnormal for having curves and that sometimes I have daydreams of getting liposuction to rid myself of my caboose.

I dont believe that staring at super-skinny celebrities or models makes me want to be like them but it sure has its way of making me feel bad for not looking like them.
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Jacob Two-Two
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still, they're not discouraging skinny models, they're banning them outright. Some people really are that skinny. What if a girl who wants to be a model just can't gain the weight, or maybe gains it in ways that would prevent her career or something. Not that I think much of the modelling biz in general, and I understand what they're trying to do, but this just seems heavy-handed to me.

Oddly enough, me and my friends at the library have often noticed that spanish magazines tend to have more rational body-sized women on their covers (and they're more attractive for it, we all agreed). There's a marked difference if you compare them.
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mamitalinda
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What if super-skinny models just can't gain the weight? Violin
They can go model in ANY OTHER MARKET. What of the 250 lb. woman who "just can't lose the weight." No-one is clamoring for models who are genuinely obese, as opposed to pleasantly curvacious, to enter the modeling business. Why should we worry about models who are so emaciated they're unattractive? Not everybody was cut out to be a model. I'm never gonna be on a catwalk, and you don't see me shedding any tears. Razz
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Senor Magoo
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think it should be up to each designer to decide who he or she feels should model their clothes. If a designer doesn't want someone rail-thin modeling their clothes, fine. If they don't want someone plump modeling their clothes, fine. Too short? Fine. Too tall? Fine. They are their clothes, after all.

And if the show organizers wish to make certain sizes a condition, that's fine too. It's their show, and presumably no designer is obligated to attend if they cannot abide by the show's rules.

Modeling has never been "equal opportunity". It's practically the textbook example of NOT equal opportunity.

That said, watch for some legislator somewhere to try and cash in their 15 minutes of fame by proposing that this be enshrined in law.
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Calamus
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jacob Two-Two wrote:
Still, they're not discouraging skinny models, they're banning them outright. Some people really are that skinny. What if a girl who wants to be a model just can't gain the weight, or maybe gains it in ways that would prevent her career or something. Not that I think much of the modelling biz in general, and I understand what they're trying to do, but this just seems heavy-handed to me.



A BMI of less than 18 does not mean that you 'just can't gain weight' unless you've got some kind of genetic disorder. Or ar possibly an amputee...
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Jacob Two-Two
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was a teenager, I was six feet tall and 120 pounds (someone wanna work that out for me?). I ate constantly, all greasy, starchy foods. People were horrified watching me pack it away.

Some people are just like that, y'know?
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Tehanu
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess you should have been a model, J22. Your BMI would have been 16.3. As I've said above, it's my understanding that this is a very crude measurement.

To me, the bigger issue is the idea of getting past the waif-look in terms of the fashion industry, including having models starve themselves (sometimes to death). And in spite of what happened in Milan, I don't anticipate a major sea change.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I was in University I read a case study of a teenage women who's doctor assumed she was anorexic because she had a BMI of 16.something. She insisted that she did not have an eating disorder, but the doctor told her parents that she had anorexia. When her parents insisted that she eats a lot at home then the doctor convinced the parents that she must be bulimic, because the BMI doesn't lie, and her BMI was way too low.

Well, after months of therapy, with no progress the girl broke her leg walking home one day. It was then that the doctor discovered that she had incredibly low bone density, small bone structure period, and a bone disease called myeloma, and was, in fact, not bulimic. It was these bone factors that contributed to her low BMI.

Ater reading that case study I have never put much stock in the BMI, and I am still amazed that it's used as a standard in medicine.
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Clog-boy
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My BMI is 18.2 according to the test. I've been able to stuff my face with everything I wanted, practically without gaining a single pound. Fat, carbohydrates, proteins; it didn't matter, it was all gone in 60 seconds... Wink

Once I even went on a two week "diet": I ate about double to triple the daily required amount of energy a man needs (some 8000-9000 kcal)...
Result after two weeks: I gained 2 pound and my mum's fridge, freezer and cellar were empty... Rolling Eyes
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Tehanu
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe this will lead to more fashion shows taking actions such as Madrid's; a Brazilian model has died of anorexia.

Quote:
RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil - The mother of a Brazilian fashion model who died from complications of anorexia has made an emotional appeal for parents to take better care of aspiring young models.

The death of Ana Carolina Reston, 21, follows growing criticism of the use of underweight models in the fashion world, an issue given new significance after the death in August of Uruguayan model Luisel Ramos of heart failure during a fashion show in Montevideo.

... Reston weighed only 88 pounds and was about 5 feet 8 inches tall. Doctors consider the weight normal for a 12-year-old girl about 5 feet tall.

... In September, Spain caused a storm in the fashion world when Madrid barred models below a certain weight from its top fashion show. Models with a body-mass-index (BMI), which takes into account height and weight, of less than 18 were banned.


Toronto Star.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing that's struck me lately about the whole "anorexic models" thing--is it just me, or is our mass culture apparently encouraging pedophilia (even as mass discourse scares us with it)?
"Sexy" models are supposed to look like children. Increasingly, the clothes marketed for children are provocative teen-type stuff. In fact, all the teenage stuff, clothes, music, makeup, provocative music videos etc., is increasingly being marketed to ten-and-under girls. Then, consider dolls like Bratz. In short, prepubescent girls are encouraged to be sexy, and the exemplars of sexiness are supposed to look like prepubescent girls. And that's not even getting into those horrid little kiddie-beauty-queen pageants, which I'd take as being fringe culture.

What gives here?
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West Coast Tiger
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't some Brazilian model just die of anorexia? I'm sure I read that somewhere yesterday... going to check.

ETA: Yup... but she had an infection:

ABC: Brazilian Model Who Battled Anorexia Dies Weighing Just 88 Pounds

Quote:
Ana Carolina Reston, who had worked in China, Turkey, Mexico and Japan for several modeling agencies, died Tuesday, according to Sao Paulo's Servidor Publico Hospital.

The hospital said the infection that killed the 5-foot-8-inch model was caused by anorexia nervosa, a disorder characterized by an abnormal fear of becoming obese, an aversion to food and severe weight loss.

"Take care for your children because their loss is irreparable," Reston's mother, Miriam, told the O Globo newspaper. "Nothing can make the pain go away. No money in the world is worth the life of your child."

...

The model's cousin, Dani Grimaldi, told the Estado de Sao Paulo newspaper that Reston also battled bulimia, an eating disorder marked by binge eating that is followed by vomiting or the use of laxatives.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WCT, check two posts up Wink .

Two posts up from your post that is, not mine.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoa. How did I miss that??? Embarassed Confused I think I totally overlooked the Brazil part and thought I was still reading about Spain. Razz
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And while "super skinny models are booted in Spain", India grounds hostesses who are 'too fat to fly'


Quote:
How thin should you be to be a brand ambassador for modern India? This question will be addressed at Delhi's Supreme Court this week, as lawyers argue over whether Indian Airlines, the state-owned carrier and a national symbol, can fire its air hostesses for being too fat.

Eleven employees, recently grounded for putting on too much weight, claim that the airline has changed its vision of the Indian feminine ideal - abandoning the more buxom prototype in favour of a more westernised, skinny model, which staff see as 'unattainable'.

Indian Airlines will argue that this is a case of selecting the 'best ambassadors' to represent the national airline, and the country as a whole, and will also claim that thinner employees are more agile and better equipped to tackle terrorist incidents and other emergencies.



ummm.... ya. Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Supermodel Gisele blames families for anorexia

Quote:
RIO DE JANEIRO (Reuters) - Supermodel Gisele Bundchen says weak families are to blame for anorexia -- not the fashion industry that has been widely criticized for promoting waifish silhouettes.

"I never suffered from this problem (anorexia) because I had a very strong family base. Parents are responsible, not the fashion industry," she said in the Friday edition of O Globo newspaper.

Gisele, 26, was visiting her native Brazil this week for Fashion Rio, which has banned models who are under the age of 16 and has required proof of their good health after the death of a Brazilian model from complications due to starvation last year.

...

"Everybody knows that the norm in fashion is thin. But excuse me, there are people born with the right genes for this profession," she said.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

France: Let's Put Health Warnings On Airbrushed Models

Quote:
A coalition of 50 prominent French politicians wants to require that advertisers place "bold notices" on airbrushed images of models. The pols say that women need to know when the photos have been digitally altered and that trying to become one of those skinny bitches can be bad for your health.

Quote:
Campaigning MP Valerie Boyer, of President Nicolas Sarkozy's UMP party, said the wording should read:"Retouched photograph aimed at changing a person's physical appearance". Mrs Boyer, who has also written a government report on anorexia and obesity, added: "We want to combat the stereotypical image that all women are young and slim. "These photos can lead people to believe in a reality that does not actually exist, and have a detrimental effect on adolescents. "Many young people, particularly girls, do not know the difference between the virtual and reality, and can develop complexes from a very young age. "In some cases this leads to anorexia or bulimia and very serious health problems. "It's not just a question of public health, but also a way of protecting the consumer." She said the law which had its first reading in the French parliament last week should also have a wider scope than simply photos used in newspaper and magazine advertising. Mrs Boyer added: "Billboard photos and those on product packaging, as well as photos used in political campaigns or artistic photos, should also be included."


The proposed fine for not publishing the warning is 50% of the cost of the ad campaign.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The proposed fine for not publishing the warning is 50% of the cost of the ad campaign.

Now that is a fine for business mis-deed that I whole-heartily support.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At what point will it become common knowledge that fashion photographs are retouched?

I'm thinking that we don't seem to need special great big stickers on, say, used car salesmen, saying "WARNING: this person wants to make money by exaggerating the value of a car that he wishes you to buy". We just know that the used car sales business involves a certain amount of dodgy salesmenship.

When are we going to not need someone to tell us that fashion photographs don't represent reality?? We've been hearing, over and over, for at least the last decade, if not more, that fashion photographs are fake. Will we, at some point, be capable of just knowing this?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
At what point will it become common knowledge that fashion photographs are retouched?


I didn't realize how extensive retouching on photographs is or could be until it was very clearly illustrated to me a few years ago, and I'd consider myself a fairly well educated, in the know person. We're not talking just erasing a frown line or freckles, removing a shadow - it can be as extensive as changing the size and shapes of body parts. "Retouching" isn't even an appropriate word for what can be done to a photos in my opinion.

Kate Winslet and Kiera Knightly have also both spoken out about having their bodies modified after a shoot, without their permission - how many others don't bring it up when that happens? When you get a professional photographer to shoot an already better looking than average person, with state of the art lighting, professionals doing hair, makeup and wardrobe and the end result still isn't "perfect" enough to meet the expected standard of beauty, that's a sign of a sick industry and culture.

While I am disgusted by the tabloid magazine's "celebrity cellulite patrol" photos, I understand the reassuring nature of seeing that celebrity bodies are not perfect. It's just schizophrenic to have this as the flip side of the other over-airbrushed photos in the magazines. I was also incredibly angry, when I flipped though one of these a while back, to see a "doctor" commenting on all the surgeries that the celebs should have to "fix" their "problems," including recommending extensive surgeries for Tara Reid (look terrible after too much surgery? More surgery is the answer!) As though not fitting a very narrow definition of beauty in every single way is a medical issue.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a short 2 part interview with Jean Renoir about how the drive for perfection in art invariably leads to more and more ugliness. This relates directly to the state of modern commercial photography, IMO. The more easily the images are to manipulate, the uglier they become.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm thinking that we don't seem to need special great big stickers on, say, used car salesmen, saying "WARNING: this person wants to make money by exaggerating the value of a car that he wishes you to buy". We just know that the used car sales business involves a certain amount of dodgy salesmenship.


A couple random thoughts:

The dodgy saleman preys on vulnerable people, whether it is young girls who are made painfully self-conscious about their bodies or aging men who are contemplating a sports car to compensate for their bald spots and pot bellies.

I've watched several women that I would consider well-adjusted but not university-eduated leaf through a fashion magazine and provide very incisive commentary on the silliness of what they're seeing. I like to think that this is most women's response to these magazines.

I'd totally support a general media literacy component taught in schools. As visual imagery becomes the dominant form of expression in the world, I think the school systems and parents are way behind at educating kids in the system of values and persuasive techniques used to influence people's thinking, particularly in advertising, but also on the evening news.

BTW, Magoo, I'd also endorse a plan to have car salesman wear your warning sticker on their foreheads. I'd take a picnic lunch to the used car dealership every Saturday just to watch if they ever implemented that rule.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I've watched several women that I would consider well-adjusted but not university-eduated leaf through a fashion magazine and provide very incisive commentary on the silliness of what they're seeing. I like to think that this is most women's response to these magazines.


But it's a funny thing about advertising, isn't it. We all think we know a bullshit ad when we see one, but obviously enough of us are being taken in by some ads to make advertising a worthwhile endeavour for the companies.

I buy the cheapest clothes on the rack, and I don't even have a learner's permit, so I'm not vulnerable to the car salesman's schtick(bald spot and pot belly notwithstanding). I've actually tried to think of some forms of advertising that do influence me. I guess I have watched a lot of movies because I thought the trailer looked cool, but I'm a movie addict, so it's hard to know if I'm responding specifically to how the movie is portrayed in the trailer, or if it's just a case of the trailer telling me that a new crime thriller(for example) is coming out, and me going to see it because I generally like crime thrillers.

And political advertising is another interesting case. Most political junkies can probably watch the ad of a party they dislike and think "Well, obviously this is just BS, they're manufacturing an issue and promising things which are either bad for the country or impossible to deliver". But do we assume that the same sort of manipulation is absent from the ads of parties we support? In most elections I've voted in, I had an idea of which party or candidate I was gonna support, regardless of what the advertising was like. (I once voted for a candidate who was running the most godawful ads I'd ever seen). But I suppose the whole idea of being manipulated is that we don't know the manipulation is taking place.
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Raos
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And for that matter it ignores that not everybody has been around for "at least the last decade, if not more," to hear all the messages about how unrealistic depictions of models are. You could hear that trumpeted on high for the next 30 years running, and a 12 year old in 2039 is still not going to have the benefit of over 4 decades of media-savvy messages.
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Senor Magoo
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think and expect that by the age of 12, most kids would know that:

    Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy are fables
    The people on TV shows are actors
    Daniel Radcliffe cannot actually perform magic
    There is no USS Enterprise flying around the universe
    Ads that say they'll be the coolest kid at school if they buy a Nerf Volleyball are silly


I'm just wondering when the same basic skepticism and common sense is going to kick in with regard to photographs.
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ronb
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's your expectation that everyone over the age of 12 should know that photographs are lies? Hell, a kid at my daughter's school got sent home from a grade 5 field trip last week for answering the question "What is art?" with "brainwashing." That message is not welcome in our culture.
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Senor Magoo
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It's your expectation that everyone over the age of 12 should know that photographs are lies?


We know that moving ones are. And to be fair, I wouldn't expect anyone to believe that ALL pictures (moving or still) are lies... only that they aren't all the truth, either.
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F.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I've actually tried to think of some forms of advertising that do influence me.


I guess you could give yourself a hypothetical test.

Say you had to go to your local shop and buy a computer today. Would you have preconceptions about buying a Mac or a PC?

Is price the only factor when you buy personal items, like toothpaste, deodorant, soap?

Or maybe this is all a moot issue. When neuromarketing starts beaming Speedstick ads into our brains we won't have to subject ourselves to lengthy self-analysis.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Say you had to go to your local shop and buy a computer today. Would you have preconceptions about buying a Mac or a PC?


You know it's funny. Up until about two weeks ago, when they were the topic of a class discussion I did, I was completely unaware of those Apple ads with the two guys meant to represent Microsoft and Apple computers. And for what it's worth, yeah, I could see the manipulative audience- flattery from a mile away("Oh wow, look at that, Mac has a cool Japanese girlfriend!!").

Interestingly, the Korean student I showed the ads to, who had actually lived in the states for a few years, assumed that Mac was supposed to be the loser character, because "he looks like a street person"(or words to that effect). This led to a discussion about "casual chic" among well-heeled tech workers.

As to your question: I do almost all my computer stuff at internet cafes, and my only real interest in computers is for net-surfing, and maybe one day for word processing when I get around to writing that brilliant screenplay. So, if I were going to buy a PC for myself, I would probably just consult a buddy of mine who runs a net-based software company, and ask him what I should buy. He's a Microsoft partisan, so would probably steer me in that direction.

Quote:
Is price the only factor when you buy personal items, like toothpaste, deodorant, soap?


Pretty much. I will confess to having a pretty fierce preference for Coke, as opposed to Pepsi, partly as a result of the companies' advertising. My formative "cola years" were in the 1980s, and I always found Pepsi's ads really annoying, from the false populism of the "Pepsi Cola Challenge" all the way to the mindless youth-pandering of the Michael Jackson-Madonna stuff. And really. How long can they plausibly go on claiming that each generation is the "Pepsi Generation"?

In any case, I actually do prefer the taste of Coke, and where I live, it would seem to be outselling Pepsi by about 100 to 1, so it all works out in the end anyway.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a Pepper.
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F.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've mentioned the internet cafe thing before, that's why I used it as an example: I wanted something that you likely didn't have experience with as a consumer to use as an example. I also wanted to use two brands without much intrinsic difference. Your COke/Pepsi example is just as good.

I guess you passed the test. Good job on resisting brand fetishism, buddy.

The funny thing about the Coke advertisements is that so many of them lean heavily on the individuality tropes: Be unique! Be different! Drink what 60% of the market share drinks!

I kind of prefer the Dr. Pepper ads from the 1970s - they made it seem like a cult: wouldn't YOU like to be a PEPPER too?
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Hephaestion
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

from boing boing:



Quote:
Dude, her head's bigger than her pelvis. From Photoshop Disasters

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The comment that "Pez had a "Fashion Week" dispenser line" was also a good one.
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Hephaestion
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More on The criticism that Ralph Lauren doesn't want you to see!

see photo two posts up -- Heph

Quote:
Last month, Xeni blogged about the photoshop disaster that is this Ralph Lauren advertisement, in which a model's proportions appear to have been altered to give her an impossibly skinny body ("Dude, her head's bigger than her pelvis"). Naturally, Xeni reproduced the ad in question. This is classic fair use: a reproduction "for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting," etc.

However, Ralph Lauren's marketing arm and its law firm don't see it that way. According to them, this is an "infringing image," and they thoughtfully took the time to send a DMCA takedown notice to our awesome ISP, Canada's Priority Colo. One of the things that makes Priority Colo so awesome is that they don't automatically act on DMCA takedowns. Instead, they pass them on to us and we talk about whether they pass the giggle-test.

This one doesn't.

So, instead of responding to their legal threat by suppressing our criticism of their marketing images, we're gonna mock them. Hence this post.

As Wendy Seltzer from the Chilling Effects project said, "Sounds like a pretty solid fair use case to me. If criticism diminishes its effectiveness, that's different from the market substitution copyright protects against. And I've rarely seen a thinner DMCA form-letter."

So, to Ralph Lauren, GreenbergTraurig, and PRL Holdings, Inc: sue and be damned. Copyright law doesn't give you the right to threaten your critics for pointing out the problems with your offerings. You should know better. And every time you threaten to sue us over stuff like this, we will:

a) Reproduce the original criticism, making damned sure that all our readers get a good, long look at it, and;

b) Publish your spurious legal threat along with copious mockery, so that it becomes highly ranked in search engines where other people you threaten can find it and take heart; and

c) Offer nourishing soup and sandwiches to your models.


go to link for a link to Lauren's lawyers' bombelliquancy...
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Germany's top fashion magazine bans models over "anorexia"

Quote:
Declaring that "Today's models weigh around 23% less than normal women," and "The whole model industry is anorexic," Germany's top women's magazine, Brigitte has announced that it will no longer work with professional models, because they have to devote substantial resources to photoshopping added weight to them in order to make them resemble their readers.

Quote:
Lebert said the magazine would call on German women to put themselves forward as models for fashion and makeup articles.

"We're looking for women who have their own identity, whether it be the 18-year-old A-level student, the company chairwoman, the musician, or the footballer," he said, adding that he wanted a mix between prominent and completely unknown women and would look out for politicians and actresses interested in modelling.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ralph Lauren fires photo-chopped model for being too big

Quote:
Filippa Hamilton, the model who Ralph Lauren's ad people crudely photoshopped, is looking for work. Ralph Lauren fired her, she said in an appearance on NBC's Today show this morning, due to her inability to fit into his clothes.

She's 5'10" and 120 lbs.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
due to her inability to fit into his clothes.


The countess may have a point, but I really don't think this is it. It would be absurd to believe that Ralph Lauren only made clothes in size 6... they don't.

Another rendition of this particular issue phrases the situation somewhat differently:

Quote:
Hamilton said that Lauren wrote a letter to her agent saying, Were terminating your services because you dont fit into the sample clothes that you need to wear.


It is possible to be too fat (or too thin) to fit into a specific set of garments regardless of your dimensions.
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Tehanu
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A little more background on this ... the picture of the model was definitely photoshopped. BoingBoing was threatened by Ralph Lauren when they raised the issue, and it was only later that it turned out that the company did indeed release the ad, rather than it being photoshopped by some anonymous blogger or something.

Quote:
... It all started when BoingBoing claimed to have found an advertisement featuring veteran Ralph Lauren model Filippa Hamilton-Palmstierna looking so skinny, her head is wider than her hips, reports The Huffington Post.

... Laurens company responded to the post by accusing BoingBoing of copyright infringement for reprinting the ad.

... The editors at [BoingBoing's] Photoshop Disasters told the Web site StyleList that their anonymous source said he or she photographed the ad at a "trendy" mall in Tokyo, and that the editors believe it's legit.

And it appears they were correct. On Thursday, Polo Ralph Lauren released the following statement about the retouched ad, as reported on Extra:

"For over 42 years we have built a brand based on quality and integrity. After further investigation, we have learned that we are responsible for the poor imaging and retouching that resulted in a very distorted image of a woman's body."


Ralph Lauren is trying to do some damage control after firing the model:

Quote:
Polo Ralph Lauren said in a statement Tuesday night that Filippa is a "beautiful and healthy" woman but their relationship ended "as a result of her inability to meet the obligations under her contract with us."

"The image in question was mistakenly released and used in a department store in Japan and was not the approved image which ran in the U.S. We take full responsibility," the statement said. "This error has absolutely no connection to our relationship with Filippa Hamilton."


Yeah, translation: Ralph Lauren is acting like a bunch of asses.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tehanu wrote:
Ralph Lauren is acting like a bunch of asses.


I'd have chosen saltier terminology myself. This "mistake" of theirs is peculiar in the extreme, considering they terminated Hamilton's contract back in April.
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Legless_Marine
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:06 pm    Post subject: Ralph Lauren fires photo-chopped model for being too big Reply with quote

[Merged]

From boingboing:

"Ralph Lauren fires photo-chopped model for being too big"

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/10/14/ralph-lauren-fires-p.html#prev...

Summary: After two weeks of online chatter about this model's picture having been photo-shopped for extra-skinnyness, she's been fired for being overweight.

This is just the latest installment in a long history of designers promoting an unrealistic feminine ideal.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another impossibly skinny Ralph Lauren model
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Altruism"??? Basmaji must be using a different dictionary than I do.

Anyway, the Jacob clothing line is saying that it will no longer use retouched photos, in terms of body size at least. I suppose that's good, except of course that's a tacit admission that they have done so to date. And they're still airbrushing skin.

Quote:
Canadian clothing retailer Jacob has entered the body image debate with a no retouch photo policy.

The specialty womens wear chain says it has stopped using the kind of photo retouching that gives models fuller breasts and a skinnier waist and legs.

We are the first Canadian fashion retailer to commit to a No Retouching policy, Cristelle Basmaji, Jacobs director of communications and marketing, said in an interview.

Its a trend in the industry right now. And it fits in with our values as a family and a company, said Basmaji, who is also the granddaughter of the stores founder and namesake, Jacob Basmaji.

Those values are around respect, altruism and leadership, she said.

... In comparison [to the Dove campaign], the model Jacob is using in its no-retouch campaign is still slender, youthful and pretty. As well, the retailer said it would continue to digitally even out skin tones and erase tattoos and scars.


There's a photo accompanying the article.
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