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Bad ad?
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Berlynn
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:24 am    Post subject: Bad ad? Reply with quote

Good women and men,

An advertisement that I found to be offensive and in bad taste appeared in our local alt-newsmagazine, the Prairie Dog, for at least two weeks running. I was disappointed, to say the least, in the Managing Editor's response to my concerns and so I've posted the ad and a portion of our email exchanges to my blog, Politics'n'Poetry.

In the latest response from the Managing Editor (on the blog) he called me "self-righteous," referred to my concerns as "utter, one-sided crap," and said that "Saskatchewan cannot afford to continue with the simple-minded, sanctimonious prissyness evident in this bloggers post."

That last comment kind of took me aback. So, would you please, if you have a moment, take a look and let me know if you think I'm out of line. And, if you have an extra moment, please leave a comment at the blog.

Sincerely,

Berlynn
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West Coast Tiger
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Berlynn,

You are so correct! That ad is offensive!! I don't even know where to begin... Mad

My first impression was that it was a porn ad. No joke. Three breasts facing me with "better than beer" website link -- pretty easy to make the connection to porn, imo.

Is this in reference to or a comparison with breast milk??? Does it try to imply that three breasts are better than two? Or that the breasts/breast milk are "better than beer"?

IMO: Certainly it mocks women and their bodies. Certainly it is offensive. Certainly there are lines being crossed here. And for what? To sell a product at the expense of offending women??? I was utterly offended when I opened it up!

I think you nailed it Berlynn: Ojectification -- pure and simple.

And whether it "pays the bills" or not is hardly reason to allow such an ad. Mocking women to make a buck is a shameful argument -- especially from a so-called progressive mag. Where has common sense gone???
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virge47
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find this ad no more offensive then the ads treating men as idiots. In fact I find it rather funny and silly.
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Makwa
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Bad ad? Reply with quote

Berlynn wrote:
Good women and men,...In the latest response from the Managing Editor (on the blog) he called me "self-righteous," referred to my concerns as "utter, one-sided crap," and said that "Saskatchewan cannot afford to continue with the simple-minded, sanctimonious prissyness evident in this bloggers post."
Ms. B - just my $0.02 - but the first time I saw this ad on a billboard in T-dot - I thought - aha - imitation Frat Hawse cultcha now become 'cutting edge' advert. Old world sexism replayed as cutting edgy new somethin or whatevah. For me it was a rehash of a dirty joke from a lame ol' 60's softcore pron book, something that the guy who used to sell his weird short story books from a sign around his neck (you know who I mean - C. K.) used to contribute to. Lame, sad but now apparently surrounded by money. Ignore it - it will pass into the world of the lame and foolish as all bad natured things do. Don't address it, it will only encourage the foolish and badly monied to believe they have an audience other than the drunk, the ignorant and the weirdly obsessed.
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Last edited by Makwa on Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Berlynn
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, WCT. I was feeling pretty alone and out there until the feminists started commenting.

But it saddens me that people accept that the objectification and denigration of female bodies as ok. It's a terribly slippery slope that leads to worse things that have been well-documented in numerous studies over the years.

Thanks again, for your support.

B-)
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Triz
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quick drift, sorry] Makwa: Crad K? Porn?! Weird, I'll grant you ... or are we thinking of different people? (Can there be TWO CKs that fit this definition? Shocked )
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Catchfire
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think anyone said that objectifying female bodies was okay, but such objectification occurs in pretty much any beer commercial. What about that Bud Light commercial that features several variations, all ending with a big-breasted woman getting splashed with beer/water all over her chest? Yes, all the things you say are true, but they are true for so many things--I suppose that's why you find difficulties in gaining support.

The editor was way out of line in treating you like he/she did, of course. But anyone who'd like an ad like that is already an a**hole to begin with...

Besides, I frankly find a three-breasted woman far more disturbing than attractive.
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Makwa
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trizia wrote:
[quick drift, sorry] Makwa: Crad K? Porn?! Weird, I'll grant you ... or are we thinking of different people? (Can there be TWO CKs that fit this definition? Shocked )
I think not. Remember 'Terrible Stories for Idiots?' or "Lightning Struck My Dick" (being the tragic tale of what happened to young sonny boy Richard one fine summer day for those of wicked imagination). Yes, Ms. T., the Kilodny tales, for those of us who remember that benighted scribbler.
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Senor Magoo
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw the ad as primarily absurd. There's another one in the same series that simply shows a squirrel with large testicles. I have no idea why a rodent with a big package is better than beer. There's also one of an obese man "flexing" like a weightlifter, with a "six pack" drawn on his stomach with a magic marker.

And I agree that the three breasts are a bit disturbing.
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Berlynn
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I've found a lot of support within the progressive community. I am offended that the body of a woman should be treated as mutant and denigrated as it is in the ad. I expect better of progressive organization, of which I've always assumed the publication in question to be.

That said, I am offended and insulted by the behaviour of the editor. His vitriol was a total surprise to me, particularly his lack of any attempt to understand, be sensitive and courteous. A simple, thank-you-for-your-comments-we'll-review-our-policy would've been easier to take, or an offer to publish my three or four lines as a letter to the ed. But that was not to be, so I took it to the next level.

It frightens me, actually, how this has gotten completely out of hand -- how he has, in fact. I've had 800+ hits on my blog when I usually get around 100 on a heavy-posting day. Also frightening are some of the comments at Dumbrella.
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beluga2
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senor Magoo wrote:
There's also one of an obese man "flexing" like a weightlifter, with a "six pack" drawn on his stomach with a magic marker.


I think the idea is that the "six pack" is supposed to be the outline of his six livers. Y'know, so the dude could then drink himself stupid to his heart's content, confident that he has an extra five backup livers should the original go kaput.

At least that's how I interpreted it. I could be wrong. And I too can't figure out the well-hung squirrel one. And I could barely look at the three-breasted woman, it creeped me out so much.

I guess if these morons' intent was to stir controversy and get attention, it worked.
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ShyViolet
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a creepy ad Shocked
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Sineed
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where's the three-eyed Shocked when you need it? And when did weird and creepy start selling?

Makwa, you forgot "Blood Sucking Monkeys of East Tonawonda," "Excrement," and my personal favourites, those "Worst Canadian Poetry" anthologies.
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HeywoodFloyd
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beluga2 wrote:


At least that's how I interpreted it. I could be wrong. And I too can't figure out the well-hung squirrel one. And I could barely look at the three-breasted woman, it creeped me out so much.

I guess if these morons' intent was to stir controversy and get attention, it worked.


Well, I get the squirrel one. Who needs to collect nuts when you've got a pair like that.
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Diane Demorney
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HeywoodFloyd wrote:
Well, I get the squirrel one. Who needs to collect nuts when you've got a pair like that.

Ooooh! So that's what that meant. Embarassed
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Triz
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm too lazy to do it (well, I'm using Caissa's seven-day procrastination plan about something, which is about to bite me in the ass - THANKS CAISSA Evil or Very Mad ... ANYWAY, I have to go to actual work for 9 am), but if someone could check out the statement that this ran in alt weeklys across Canada? I didn't notice it in NOW or Eye.
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West Coast Tiger
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

/drift

Looks like skdadl posted on B's blog... number 16 on the list. Also appears she's contributing over at pogge.ca ...which I didn't know. Do you suppose we should send her an invite (via pogge's site) back to EnMasse? Or would that be a bad idea? I expect she knows the door is always open, but we *could* mail her and tell her so. ???

/end drift
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fern hill
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

West Coast Tiger wrote:
/drift

Looks like skdadl posted on B's blog... number 16 on the list. Also appears she's contributing over at pogge.ca ...which I didn't know. Do you suppose we should send her an invite (via pogge's site) back to EnMasse? Or would that be a bad idea? I expect she knows the door is always open, but we *could* mail her and tell her so. ???

/end drift


Another example of WCT's complete, total, get out the Roget's, cluenessness.
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Tehanu
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personal attack, Fern Hill. Please don't.
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fern hill
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skdadl has not posted here for a real long time. WCT can talk about someone who is not here? Personal attack? Jesusfuckingchrist.
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West Coast Tiger
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fern hill wrote:
skdadl has not posted here for a real long time. WCT can talk about someone who is not here? Personal attack? Jesusfuckingchrist.


There was nothing offensive in my post, Fern. I'm surprised you jumped on it. And yes... I consider your comment a personal attack. Who's stalking who here? Mods: please note this.
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John_D
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edited June 21, 2006

Last edited by John_D on Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Triz
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing WCT wrote was a personal attack. She wrote that she'd been checking out pogge, because skadl posts there (shared BY skadl) and it was pretty clear WCT posted this because she misses skadl and wants her back. I am pretty comfortable saying that there would be a universal "yes!" to having skadl back. It will never be all sunshine and light here, but the dialogue would be better for having skadl being a part of it.

And that is what WCT wrote: "Do you suppose we should send her an invite (via pogge's site) back to EnMasse? Or would that be a bad idea? I expect she knows the door is always open, but we *could* mail her and tell her so. ???"

skadl back would be great. WCT was just posting about ways to help this happen.
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West Coast Tiger
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

/drift

John_D wrote:
WCT - Respectfully, I don't think what you've suggested is a good idea. I'm sure skdadl knows how people here feel about her, and I don't believe a formal letter would help or would clarify anything. Besides, who would write/send such a letter?

With that said, I want to also say that I think your optimism and energy are a credit to this board. Keep up the good work! Smile


Thank you John. I wasn't sure how others felt about the idea, but I thought I'd toss it out there since I do miss skdadl. I wasn't really thinking of a formal letter from EnMasse as a whole. I was thinking that a few could email her and let her know we miss her and ask her if she'd reconsider coming back.

But I don't want to derail this thread... so perhaps others can PM me if they feel it's a good idea, or if they want to share their input.
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fern hill
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah shit, Oilers lost, I've had too much to drink, so ban my ass.

WCT, if you think YOU can get sdkadl back, you have your head so far up your own ass that you can't see anything but your own black heart.

That last bit is from a friend. I said: 'I've been called a 'phobe.' Friend said: 'Anyone who called you a 'phobe had his/her ass. . . .'
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Tehanu
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fern hill wrote:
Ah shit, Oilers lost, I've had too much to drink, so ban my ass.

WCT, if you think YOU can get sdkadl back, you have your head so far up your own ass that you can't see anything but your own black heart.

That last bit is from a friend. I said: 'I've been called a 'phobe.' Friend said: 'Anyone who called you a 'phobe had his/her ass. . . .'


Well, fern hill, from where I sit you're not giving me any choice. So, you got it. 24 hour suspension as per AUP.
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John_D
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edited June 21, 2006

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obscurantist
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I originally posted this, then changed my mind and deleted it, but Trizia quoted it, so I've put it back in:

I think the problem -- or, well, ONE of the problems -- is that WCT doesn't know about the... um, you know, the -- wink wink -- hey, all the COOL kids know 'zactly what I'm talkin' 'bout, right? If she did, she would understand. It would all be perfectly clear....


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HeywoodFloyd
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Respectfully John, I don't think it needs another thread or even a discussion. The violation is pretty clear and it persisted even though a mod gave a "knock-it-off".
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John_D
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edited June 21, 2006

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HeywoodFloyd
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now, back on topic.

After a lot of reflection, I don't see a problem with the ad. It is a pretty witty play on the standard Bud or Coors Lite. When I see the rest of the ads in context it makes perfect sense.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And of course there is nothing wrong with objectifying women, is there Heywood? Rolling Eyes Of course, it doesn't offend YOU so it's alright, eh? Rolling Eyes Now we mustn't have any humourless feminists complaining about women being treated as things, must we? Just rename this place The Lockeroom, with the motto: it's okay to denigrate women here.
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Tehanu
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What fern has just been suspended for seems less major than what other posters in other cases have been able to get away with, but that is just my opinion. Do you think it would be useful to have a separate thread on that issue? It's certainly a big drift from this topic.


I personally don't think it would be useful, but if you want to start a thread to talk about how we're doing as moderators, feel free to do so!

Other people have been warned not to attack another poster and have desisted. John_D, let me know if you have seen instances of people being warned not to personally attack a poster and repeating it (especially in the same thread). Unless we've missed them (which is certainly possible) then I don't think you'll find them. I imagine that "what other people have been able to get away with" might have to do with moderator calls you disagree with. In my opinion: Not clear violations of the AUP.

And while you're looking, feel free to take a look at this thread.)

And regarding the thread topic, I think that ad is very offensive, FWIW. Mocking sexist beer ads by using sexism is like saying two wrongs make a right.
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Amy Grace
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually don't see the ad as offensive, either.
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HeywoodFloyd
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holly Stick wrote:
And of course there is nothing wrong with objectifying women, is there Heywood? Rolling Eyes Of course, it doesn't offend YOU so it's alright, eh? Rolling Eyes Now we mustn't have any humourless feminists complaining about women being treated as things, must we? Just rename this place The Lockeroom, with the motto: it's okay to denigrate women here.


I don't recall saying anything about feminists or that people shouldn't be offended. I don't recall defining reality for any women here. I don't recall saying anything about humourless people.

Can you point me to where I did?
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Tehanu
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heywood, I would like to remind you about which forum you're in.

Such a lovely evening! Good night all.
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Triz
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No.

"What fern has just been suspended for seems less major than what other posters in other cases have been able to get away with, but that is just my opinion. Do you think it would be useful to have a separate thread on that issue? It's certainly a big drift from this topic."

"I think the problem -- or, well, ONE of the problems -- is that WCT doesn't know about the... um, you know, the -- wink wink -- hey, all the COOL kids know 'zactly what I'm talkin' 'bout, right? If she did, she would understand. It would all be perfectly clear...."

WCT has a well-established sense of humour. The misinterpretation of what she wrote is not funny in any way. Fern wasn't banned, just suspended. What WCT wrote, to which Fern responded, was a very articulate "missing you" postcard to skadl. If FH HAD been banned, I might have a problem with it, but WCT would probably be sending PMs complaining about Fern being banned before I even knew it had happened.

Look, I'm not a mod, but FH is one of the most interesting and prolific posters here. It isn't a popularity contest. That was just a straight-off misreading of what someone wrote (by about 180 degrees). The mods have dealt with it as they decided; let's move on.

In 23 hours, Fern will hopefully be back.
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HeywoodFloyd
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tehanu wrote:
Heywood, I would like to remind you about which forum you're in.


I'm being very, very mindful of that.
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Holly Stick
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The message is that a man is shown with a beer belly, because he is a human being with human dignity; but animals like squirrels can be shown with giant testicles and animals like women can be shown with extra teats. Why didn't they just give her six teats in two rows to make the message clear?
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Triz
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I completely agree with Holly (having only seen the one ad and not wanting at all to see the other two). Repeating my question from earlier in this thread, has ANYONE seen this ad elsewhere? It doesn't make it less offensive if the ad did, in fact, play in alt weeklys across the country, but it does make a difference if they said it did and it didn't.
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HeywoodFloyd
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see how there is any human dignity in the picture of the man at all. It mocks both people who can't be bothered to take care of themselves and the culture which says that male beauty is based on the six-pack.

I can see the effective similarities between the messages in the six-pack, mega-nuts, and triple-teat ads. The two human oriented ones mock pop-culture beauty standards.
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Triz
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no dignity in any of the ads.

There is a difference between a guy with a gut having a pen-inked six pack and a woman having three breasts.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HeywoodFloyd wrote:
Tehanu wrote:
Heywood, I would like to remind you about which forum you're in.


I'm being very, very mindful of that.
No, you are not being mindful of it. In other words, post less and pay attention to what others are saying.

Or are you are deliberately trolling the FF?
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obscurantist
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Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trizia wrote:
WCT has a well-established sense of humour. The misinterpretation of what she wrote is not funny in any way. ... What WCT wrote, to which Fern responded, was a very articulate "missing you" postcard to skadl.
Trizia, I'm not sure why you quoted my comment in your post, although what I wrote was so, well, obscurantist that I shouldn't be surprised if anyone read it the wrong way. It was an allusion to another site that some people here know about and some don't.

Last edited by obscurantist on Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:36 am; edited 2 times in total
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Holly Stick
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HeywoodFloyd wrote:
...I can see the effective similarities between the messages in the six-pack, mega-nuts, and triple-teat ads. The two human oriented ones mock pop-culture beauty standards.
There is no similarity. Why didn't they show a man with mega-nuts, or two penises?
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Triz
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry obscurantist. I misread that as a dig that some people get away with things (or get the jokes) and others don't.
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obscurantist
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'sokay. By the way, my original message was a test of the Emergency Obscurantism system. It was only a test. Had this been actual obscurantism, I wouldn't have said anything at all. Shhh
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Triz
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that a smilie with green foamy stuff coming out of the mouth? Because THAT is a smilie we could definitely use around here!

... Suddenly having a need to check in on the rye thread ...
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beluga2
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trizia wrote:
Repeating my question from earlier in this thread, has ANYONE seen this ad elsewhere? It doesn't make it less offensive if the ad did, in fact, play in alt weeklys across the country, but it does make a difference if they said it did and it didn't.


It ran in the Georgia Straight in Vancouver a couple weeks ago. There was at least one letter-to-the-editor making similar complaints to the ones in this thread.

So no, they aren't lying about it appearing elsewhere.
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HeywoodFloyd
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Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holly Stick wrote:
HeywoodFloyd wrote:
...I can see the effective similarities between the messages in the six-pack, mega-nuts, and triple-teat ads. The two human oriented ones mock pop-culture beauty standards.
There is no similarity. Why didn't they show a man with mega-nuts, or two penises?


Cause to get the effect across as outlandishly as they did with the triples set, they would probably have to create an ad which the papers wouldn't run.

It would have been as funny as heck though.
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