EnMasse

Hephaestion

I recently posted virtually the same suggestion as below on an FF thread, and I would like to poll the local LGBT community to see what RR regulars think of the idea for this forum...

Nevin · Member Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 75 Location: USA

I think it would be a very interesting thread. What do you mean by an "open"l ist?
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Mundus Vult Decipi

pogovio · Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 11:26 pm Post subject:

Let's do it!

Of course it has to be a moderated list. Otherwise we would eventually get books on Xtian morality and NARTH propaganda. But moderating the list requires no special dicision, because, as I understand it, this whole forum is moderated. Since I haven't transgressed, I don't know exactly where the line is drawn. I wouldn't even mind haveing the antigay books on the list, as long as they are in a section designated for books that are contrary to gay progress. (Know thine enemy.)

If there's some way to arrange it, I'd like to see the list existing independently, like a catalog, not just as part of members messages. (There's already too much competition IMHO to "beat others to the punch" (I've seen this phrase) in postingt something.) Then each item should be a link to a thread where we all could post a comment message on the item. Ahem, am I getting too grandiose?

While we're at it, I'd also like to see a list of recommended gay fiction and recommended gay film (with mini-reviews and ~heat~ ratings).

pogovio · Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 11:26 pm Post subject:

Let's do it!

Of course it has to be a moderated list. Otherwise we would eventually get books on Xtian morality and NARTH propaganda. But moderating the list requires no special dicision, because, as I understand it, this whole forum is moderated. Since I haven't transgressed, I don't know exactly where the line is drawn. I wouldn't even mind haveing the antigay books on the list, as long as they are in a section designated for books that are contrary to gay progress. (Know thine enemy.)

If there's some way to arrange it, I'd like to see the list existing independently, like a catalog, not just as part of members messages. (There's already too much competition IMHO to "beat others to the punch" (I've seen this phrase) in postingt something.) Then each item should be a link to a thread where we all could post a comment message on the item. Ahem, am I getting too grandiose?

While we're at it, I'd also like to see a list of recommended gay fiction and recommended gay film (with mini-reviews and ~heat~ ratings).

Catchfire · Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 11:27 pm Post subject:

Would non-LGBT posters be invited to add some of their favourite essays, etc?

If so, what nature of writing is sought? Egghead academic? Testamonial? Journalistic? Un menage à trois?

Hephaestion · Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 11:27 pm Post subject:

Nevin --

I mean, can anybody post on it without restriction, or would submissions have to be sent to a mod, and then *they* would post it on the thread.

This would be a means of keeping trolls from posting crap such as "Why Fags are Evil" by Joey the Rat, or whatever. As I'm hoping that this thread could be used as an ongoing resource, and as I am opposed in principle to deleting posts (unless they are *truly* gawdawful), I figured one way around that would be to control who could actually post on that thread.
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"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin

Diane Demorney · Bazinga! Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 4746 Location: Calgary

So, I guess, Mulder/Skinner slash fanfic is out, eh? Just askin'. heeee.
_________________
Scissors cuts paper. Paper covers rock. Rock crushes lizard. Lizard poisons Spock. Spock smashes scissors. Scissors decapitates lizard. Lizard eats paper. Paper disproves Spock. Spock vaporizes rock. And as it always has, rock crushes scissors.

Catchfire · Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 11:30 pm Post subject:

I'd like to add that I would love to read anything that comes highly recommended by any of the regular posters/motivated LGBT activists. So I hope this project goes through regardless.

Hephaestion · Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 11:32 pm Post subject:

So, should it be an "open list", you think? (Maybe go to a "closed list" if we have any problems?)
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"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin

swallow · Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 12:56 am Post subject:

Diane Demorney · Bazinga! Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 4746 Location: Calgary

Hephaestion · Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 1:34 am Post subject:

It's not the number of arms, DD, it's what you do with them. Mr. Green

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"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin

Hephaestion · Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 2:28 am Post subject:

Well, hearing (so far) nobody against the idea, and since this thread is yet young, why not just turn *this* thread into the one we're talking about starting?

I'm not on my home 'puter right now, so I don't have all my own notes and links and such, but I asked Crip, as a sort of last present for the Rainbow Room people here, if he would suggest a couple of submissions to the list. Sorry, there's no "thumbnail" to go with them, but here is what Crip sent:

Larry Kramer's Nov. 2004 speech at Cooper Union, 'The Tragedy of Today's Gays.'

and

Edmund White's 1980 much-more-than-a-travel-book, 'States of Desire: Travels in Gay America.'

I shall post some more of my own after I get home, and I look forward to reading others' submissions. And feel free at any point, if a suggested work or link so moves you, to start a spin-off thread for discussion purposes. I'd rather not lard this thread up with a lot of back-and-forth about individual works, although *links* to spin-off threads would be most appreciated. Cool

_________________
"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin

Hephaestion · Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 2:48 am Post subject:

Oh, and here's one that I don't need to go home to get a link for. It's a goldmine of great LGBT stuff: Rictor Norton's home page

A brief bio of Norton from Gay and Lesbian Humanist...

Cartman · Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 2:58 am Post subject:

Kinsman, G. (1996). The regulation of desire: homo and hetero sexualities, second revised edition. Montreal: Black Rose Books.

"Gary has been a strong force in lesbian/gay, feminist, labor union, global justice, anti-poverty, and left issues. He was a central figure in the publication of Rites (1984-1991), a Canadian national gay and lesbian magazine published out of Toronto. He helped found Gays and Lesbians Against the Right Everywhere (GLARE) and the Lesbian and Gay Pride Day Committee of Toronto. He was later involved in AIDS ACTION NOW!, and in AIDS organizing in Newfoundland and Nova Scotia. He helped to organize the first Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgendered and Two-Spirited Pride march in Sudbury in 1997."

Kinsman is pretty easy to read and he has some really fascinating info on security matters and the construction of homosexuality in Canada.

vee michel · Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 3:05 am Post subject:

Diane Demorney · Bazinga! Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 4746 Location: Calgary

Hephaestion · Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 3:16 am Post subject:

Whoops: Edit... technically, that's not drift. My mistake.

Originally read: Ummm... folks? Drift? As in... don't, please?
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"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin

Diane Demorney · Bazinga! Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 4746 Location: Calgary

Sorry, Heph. Now, where are we? Right, reading list. Maybe a sticky post, that could be added to?
_________________
Scissors cuts paper. Paper covers rock. Rock crushes lizard. Lizard poisons Spock. Spock smashes scissors. Scissors decapitates lizard. Lizard eats paper. Paper disproves Spock. Spock vaporizes rock. And as it always has, rock crushes scissors.

Hephaestion · Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 4:12 am Post subject:

Fer has contributed this...

quote:
~~~~
Any of the manifestos from the Gay Liberation Front might be helpful
(this one is from the English branch of that movement)
http://www.fordham.edu/HALSALL/pwh/glf-london.html

The Queer Nation manifesto might be helpful
http://www.qrd.org/qrd/misc/text/queers.read.this

I might suggest Patricia Nell Warren's The Front Runner, Rita Mae Brown's Rubyfruit Jungle, Edmund White's Nocturnes for the King of Naples, or Christopher Bram's Surprising Myself. I might, but I don't suggest any such thing; I no longer believe in the universal power of literature to inform.

The Publishing Triangle http://www.publishingtriangle.org/ has managed to come up with two lists though--

the 100 best lesbian and gay novels
http://www.publishingtriangle.org/100best.asp

the 100 best lesbian and gay nonfiction books
http://www.publishingtriangle.org/100nonficbest.asp

It's as good a place to start as any.
_________________
"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin

voice of the damned · Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 9:51 am Post subject:

On another thread I recommended The Mayor Of Castro Street, by Randy Shilts. So I guess I'll post my recommendation on here as well.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/104-8368633-217...

The Pink Triangle, by Richard Plant, is an interesting, if rather idiosyncratic, book about the persecution of gays and lesbians during the holocaust. Plant is somewhat off-the-beaten-path in his choice of subject matter: he has an entire chapter on the Nazi use of anti-gay rhetoric against Catholic monks, and seems surprisingly well-disposed toward the Catholic Church. Also some interesting stuff about Magnus Hirschfield, plus an eye-opening passage about the homophobic rantings of Karl Marx.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0805006001/sr=8-11/qid=1148721727/...

David Allyn's unimaginatively titled Make Love Not War is an exhaustive history of the sexual revolution, and includes extensive treatment of the gay-rights movement and gay culture. I would recommend this book to anyone interested in any aspect of the sexual revolution.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0415929423/qid=1148721959/sr=1-6/r...

Finally, I do recommend the two chapters on homosexuality in Thomas Szasz's The Manufacture Of Madness(check the index to find them). Szasz is not so much a gay-rights advocate as he is a critic of the pathologization of human behaviour by psychiatrists. Nevertheless, he provides an extensive and informative analysis of the way in which religious prejudice against homosexuals was appropriated by an ostensibly secular psychiatric establishment looking for a convenient social scapegoat.

(Most babblers, myself included, will disagree with Szasz on a lot of things. He is perhaps best thought of as a right-wing libertarian version of Michel Foucault, though that is probably an oversimplification.)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0815604610/ref=cm...

censoredagain · Posted: Mon May 29, 2006 7:34 pm Post subject:

With so many books suggested already I was somewhat surprised not to read on any list “What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality” by Daniel Helminiak Ph.D. Then I remembered that many non-heterosexuals (not all) excommunicated themselves from Xian theology all together.
However, the information within this book not only frees Xtians struggling to reconcile their knowledge of who they are to what they have been taught their god says; but it also helps others counter arguments made by our theocratic oppressors.

In addition to “What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality”, another great book is Randy Shilts’ Book “Conduct Unbecoming, Gays & Lesbians in the U.S. Military” Many may mistake by the title that this is about the military’s anti gay stance; but includes much more and gives great case studies, addresses the perceptual relationship between the idea of masculinity and homosexuality. the links between homophobia and misogyny, history and even role models for non-heterosexuals. Not to mention he cites all his sources.
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Dam the man Fight the power

Hephaestion · Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 1:57 pm Post subject:

Ummm... didn't I request that this thread be made a "sticky thread"?

Edit: Ooop! I see that it already IS. Sawwwrry!
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"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin

RealityBites · Satan Incarnate Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 1584

Hephaestion · Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 2:46 pm Post subject:

Yaaa, I already *did* do that... I PM-d Norse (uh-oh, I'm going to hell for leaking a PM now!)

It's just that when you're IN the thread (or viewing it on TAT) it doesn't show it as being a "sticky" though... You have to actually go into the Rainbow Room forum to see that.
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"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin

RealityBites · Satan Incarnate Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 1584

Hephaestion · Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject:

It's not a big deal, RB. I just thought it would be identified as a "sticky" on TAT, that's all.
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"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin

steve · Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 3:58 pm Post subject:

Tehanu · Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 4:33 pm Post subject:

OMG Steve. I just saw the sticky icon on TAT. We're Not Worthy.

I'm also a TAT STATS geek, and every time I go there, more information appears to my wondering eyes.

Ta very much!

Hephaestion · Posted: Tue May 30, 2006 6:38 pm Post subject:

Wow! Yes, thank you, Steve!
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"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin

West Coast Tiger · Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 5:23 am Post subject:

Love the stickies, Steve! Another brilliant piece of tech work again. Very Happy

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~ Rational ravings from a relative stranger in a troubled paradise. ~

West Coast Tiger · Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:48 pm Post subject:

Re-posted from another thread:

Tips and resources for teaching kids acceptance and tolerance of the GLBT community:

After Ellen offers a list of books for younger children.

That link also has a great article entitled: Teaching Love and Acceptance Through GLBT-Themed Children's Literature

---------

Gay Book Blog has several books to choose from.

The top half of this webpage lists a few books for younger children. The bottom half seems to list books for older kids and teenagers.

---------

As well, there are several authors to be on the look out for, including these ones, from what I've read at Community Kids link.:

Leslea Newman
Barbara Lynn Edmonds
Nancy Garden

The books written by these authors seem to cover a wide range of ages.

There is a list of publishers and a list of GLBT family organizations on that Community Kids link.

----

There is also a site that helps teachers to promote tolerance and acceptance of the GLBT. The site is called Colage.

They offer some valuable tips that I *think* can be applied in the home as well -- at least to some extent.

There is also a list of definitions, resources and videos at the bottom of the Colage site.

Also, Colage has its own list of books for the following topics:

Nevin · Member Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 75 Location: USA

For a god medieval dose of gayness, try, "Spiritual Friendship" and "When Jesus Was Twelve Years Old" by Saint Aelred of Rievaulx.

For a steamy 16th century gay love poem, ream, "On a Dark Night" by Saint John of the Cross.
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Mundus Vult Decipi

Hephaestion · Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:38 am Post subject:

From here:

Hephaestion · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject:

I guess we could include documentaries and the like in a "suggested reading list"... accordingly, let me suggest "For the Bible Tells Me So":

Hephaestion · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject:

“Thou Shalt Not Love: What Evangelicals Really Say to Gays”

Hephaestion · Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:10 pm Post subject:

An encyclopedia of resistance, a dictionary of homophobia

Hephaestion · Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:19 pm Post subject:

This sounds like another worthwhile kids' book...

10,000 Dresses

Hephaestion · Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:57 pm Post subject: