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bshmr
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sparqui
Dog tired
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 Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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That Mother Jones interview was interesting. I wonder where his parents were? His friend obviously noted pretty significant changes in his personality.
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bshmr
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the comments. IMO, both articles were exceptional. |
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Maestro
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I guess the next thing we want to know is where he got the Glock and the ammunition. He didn't just find it laying on the sidewalk, somebody sold, or gave, it to him.
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bshmr
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| IIRC, he bought it legally, in state, in November 2010, under his real name and address, etc.. Also, in Arizona, it is legal for him to carry without registration, a permit, or training, further that it may be concealed. Memory of interview on DemocracyNow earlier today. |
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thwap
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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Here's the Neiwert blog post I was talking about:
| Quote: | Part of the problem is that we actually have seen this happen time after time after time: A mentally unstable person is inspired by hateful right-wing rhetoric to act out violently -- and yet because of that mental state, the matter is dismissed as idiosyncratic, just another "isolated incident." And over the months and years, these "isolated incidents" mount one after another.
But simply ascribing these acts to mental illness is a cop-out. It fails to account for the gross irresponsibility of the people who employed the rhetoric that inspired the violent action in the first place, and their resulting moral culpability. |
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bshmr
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Searosia
The Rain King
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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My dad's great wisdom on the subject "Guy is lucky he isn't muslim or he woulda been waterboarded by now" (he thinks religion has more to do with american racism than colour does now). I was really wondering why the terrorist lable hasn't come up...barely concealed racism.
CNN is showing that map from Palin's site...it's atleast nice to see the tone down rhetoric position on a US new site as the falvour of the week.
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Senor Magoo
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I was really wondering why the terrorist lable hasn't come up...barely concealed racism.
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That, or he had no particular political demands.
Yes, I'm aware that he wants a return to the gold standard for currency, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence to suggest that he shot a Senator, a judge and a child in order to advance this cause.
| Quote: | | Guy is lucky he isn't muslim or he woulda been waterboarded by now |
Did they waterboard the guy who shot up Fort Hood, and killed 13? Last I read, they sent him for a psychiatric evaluation, which seems reasonable.
| Quote: | | CNN is showing that map from Palin's site |
Evidently, somewhere down the memory hole is an almost identical map, including notation "behind enemy lines", put out years ago.
Oh, but by the Democrats.
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Chester
not crazy about trees
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| on as it happens last night, they talked to some local expert (professor, maybe). when asked about the influence of gun culture his response, to paraphrase, was: the real problem was that no other citizens at the incidence were strapped "cause they could have pulled down and shot the guy before the body count went up". that's the real problem for sure. |
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voice of the damned
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Evidently, somewhere down the memory hole is an almost identical map, including notation "behind enemy lines", put out years ago.
Oh, but by the Democrats.
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Here is the map in question.
I think this one is a little bit different from the Palin map, since the bullseyes are referening particular states, for the 2008 presidential election. As such, they are not linked to the names of particular politicians. Whereas the other map was targetting districts, with the name of an actual politician linked to each district. As well, the "crosshairs" is a little more suggestive of actual gun violence than the bullseye.
Plus, the Republicans have been a bit more vocal with rhetoric suugesting a recourse to violence("Second Amendment solutions" etc), within which some may interpret the crosshairs imagery.
But yes, the more I'm reading of this, the less likely it seems to me that Lougher was influenced by any mainstream political propaganda. Still, though, not a smart thing for Palin to produce that map in the first place, since, if someone DOES go and do something rash, you probably don't want even the appearance of a link between that guy and your camp. |
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fork
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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From pandagon:
| Quote: | | What we’re learning in the aftermath of this is something Americans are probably not equipped to deal with, in our one-note, over-simplified public discourse. That’s that there isn’t a single answer for why something like this happens. It’s a combination of factors. It’s the individual’s own personal problems and it’s the right wing noise machine ratcheting up the hysteria and it’s white male rage that would exist even without the amplification just because women and racial minorities are making gains. Many things can be true at once. But many people want there to be a sole cause. |
She links to Sady Doyle's comments on Loughner's 2007 interaction with Giffords:
WSJ:
| Quote: | Mr. Montanaro said his friend “was never really political,” but “really tried to be philosophical.” Mr. Loughner liked “contemplating the meaning of words and the origin of language,” Mr. Montanaro said.
That interest might have triggered Mr. Loughner’s first meeting with Ms. Giffords in 2007. Mr. Loughner said he asked the lawmaker, “How do you know words mean anything?” recalled Mr. Montanaro. He said Mr. Loughner was “aggravated” when Ms. Giffords, after pausing for a couple of seconds, “responded to him in Spanish and moved on with the meeting.” |
Sady:
| Quote: | He also apparently told friends she was “stupid and unintelligent” afterward, as per a friend.
I say again: Are we REALLY surprised that this happened in part because (a) he said something he thought was very smart, and was a man, (b) she easily outsmarted him while appearing not to consider his point valid, and was female, and (c) he called her “stupid” even after she’d easily outsmarted him — how do I know words mean anything? If I say something to you in a different language, you don’t know what I mean — and (d) losing an argument to a woman fueled his anger and bitterness against her to the point that he later became violent?
Because, me? I’m not surprised. I see this every day. I see this on Tumblr; I see this in comment sections; I see this in my real life; I see this every day. My first boyfriend threatened to hit me because I was winning an argument about Bush v. Gore and electoral politics. It doesn’t always get to this extreme level of violence, it’s true. But if you want to know why we think “misogyny” exists, consider the rage men feel every time they lose an argument. Consider the fact that being smarter than a man can get you threatened, harassed, or — in this case, apparently — shot in the head. |
Amanda (pandagon):
| Quote: | | Of course, the downside is that a perfect shot across the bow like that one tends to piss the mansplainer off a lot. After all, he was already threatened by your intelligence. Dismantling what he thought was some brilliant, deep question in two seconds flat isn't likely to make that threateningness dissipate. |
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fork
Utensil
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Alongside the map, Palin has been getting attention for what's getting deleted, and not deleted, from her Facebook page:
Obamalondon:
| Quote: | | . . . But I had no idea how incredibly, almost comically, efficient her people would turn out to be in deleting comments that were even slightly critical of the former Governor. And then I came across... well, what I guess you'd have to politely call an appalling example of editorial misjudgement at best. |
A feminist take on connecting Palin to the Arizona shooting from Reclusive Leftist:
| Quote: | That Keith Olberman is a piece of work, isn’t he? This is the guy who suggested in 2008 that Hillary Clinton be discreetly murdered in order to get her out of the way. Now he has a Special Comment® devoted to the message that “violence, or the threat of violence, has no place in our democracy.” I agree, but where were you in 2008, dude?
That’s right. He was busy calling for Hillary Clinton’s death and then, when Clinton was over, foaming at the mouth about Sarah Palin. Lots of people were foaming at the mouth about Sarah Palin. There was the “art” exhibit in New York inviting people to play at shooting her with a rifle. She was hung in effigy in Los Angeles. Sandra Bernhardt said she should be raped, and not a few other people gleefully called for her death. . .
So I find it somewhat ironic that now, in the wake of the tragic Arizona shooting, Sarah Palin is being held responsible for the violence of our political discourse—which everyone now agrees is a terrible thing. . .
But still, people will say, no matter what happened in the past (and watch for folks to backpeddle furiously and claim that they certainly never endorsed or even snickered at the Kill Palin stuff), the issue is that today’s wingnut/Tea Party rhetoric is dangerous, and Sarah Palin is responsible for it. She is, according to one overwrought comment I saw on Facebook, the “focus of evil in this country.” . . .
. . . Sarah Palin is a Republican. That’s all. She’s just a silly rightwing Republican. The country’s crawling with them. Look, they’re all around you! They’re your county supervisors, state senators, congresspeople, governors, and former presidents. Remember Bush? Remember Reagan? Sarah Palin didn’t invent any of this stuff. She didn’t invent any of the ideas or any of the rhetoric. She certainly didn’t invent extremist violence, nor does she seem to be in any way connected with that kind of thing. She’s just an ordinary idiot Republican who believes ordinary idiot Republican things, like the millions of other ordinary idiot Republicans in this country.
What is it about her that’s so special? What could it possibly be that makes this utterly ordinary idiot Republican somehow a billion times worse than all the rest?
I’ll give you a hint: Hillary Clinton. The political right in this country spent much of the 90s and 00s obsessed with Hillary Clinton in the same way that the political left is now obsessed with Sarah Palin. To normal, rational, self-aware people (which is to say, to feminists over the age of 40), Hillary Clinton was simply a middle-of-the-road Democrat, the junior Senator from New York, an intelligent and capable politician. To the right, and to misogynists on the left, she was the focus of evil in the modern world. . . |
I found that last link via Alas, A Blog, which has a commenter (Elkins @ 23) take on the "He's crazy" angle. Responding to:
| Quote: | | “…any suggestion that the Tucson shooting was somehow inspired by the extreme anti-Obama political rhetoric of the past 2 years” is just plain wrong. |
| Elkins wrote: | Why?
Oh, right. Because Loughner is crazypants. Therefore, his actions must exist in a cultural vacuum. Schizophrenics don’t get “inspired” by the world around them. We’re immune to cultural influence. We just….randomly do stuff. ‘Cause we’re so crazy and all, you know. OOGA BOOGA BOOGA!
Richard, seriously, I’m just not seeing the logic here. You say that you don’t want to participate in ablist memes about the mentally ill, but from where I’m standing, your argument seems to rest on the notion that crazy people are immune to influence by the media, or that when we decide to do things, the culture around us plays no part in shaping those decisions. Is that really something you believe? . . .
When “diagnosed schizophrenics,” to use the popular phrase, decide what to buy at the store, what clothing to wear, for whom to vote in an election, we make those decisions under the same cultural and societal influences as everyone else does. We are not immune to the influence of upbringing. We are not immune to the influence of advertising. We are not immune to the influence of propaganda.
So why on earth should anyone believe that when one of us turns out to be a violent, murderous asshole, he suddenly and inexplicably — like magic! — becomes totally immune to the cultural soup in which we all soak? |
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Searosia
The Rain King
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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Location: Back in Calgary!
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | (c) he called her “stupid” even after she’d easily outsmarted him — how do I know words mean anything? If I say something to you in a different language, you don’t know what I mean — |
It's hard to tell what he was talking about in the tiny blurb mentioned...but Amanda and Sady both seem in agreeance that speaking in another language 'dismantles' the philisophical question of 'Do words mean anything'. Not sure if I can agree with Amanda that Giffords response was dismantling/outsmarting....definately clever, but it seems more like an outright dismissal. Sady calls it (in her D) )"Losing an arguement to a woman"...I would think it's more correctly "being cleverly dismissed by a woman". Probably the same reaction from Loughner anyway and Sady's comments are still true " consider the rage men feel every time they lose an are dismissed in an argument"
My comment is in part because I'll have that 'Do words mean anything discussion' and using words of another language (still words, unless your argument is words of a different language aren't) to dismiss that question is exactly that...a dismissal...not a dismantle nor an argument. Would Gifford sticking out her tongue and going 'nyah nyah nyah' work too (Is speaking non-words as clever of a dismantle as speaking words in other languages?)? Philisophical types (which I beleive Loughner is from the recent reading) respond far worse to dismissal then 'losing an arguement'.
I'm having problems getting the Pandagon site to load, I'd like to read the rest from Amanda
Magoo:
| Quote: | That, or he had no particular political demands.
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Terrorism is only in reference towards killing to meet a political agenda or advance a particular cause? Terror is only terrorism when it serves a purpose I guess
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Senor Magoo
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Terror is only terrorism when it serves a purpose I guess |
Basically. If there's no purpose behind it we call it "random violence".
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thwap
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | That Keith Olberman is a piece of work, isn’t he? This is the guy who suggested in 2008 that Hillary Clinton be discreetly murdered in order to get her out of the way. Now he has a Special Comment® devoted to the message that “violence, or the threat of violence, has no place in our democracy.” I agree, but where were you in 2008, dude?
That’s right. He was busy calling for Hillary Clinton’s death and then, when Clinton was over, foaming at the mouth about Sarah Palin. Lots of people were foaming at the mouth about Sarah Palin. There was the “art” exhibit in New York inviting people to play at shooting her with a rifle. She was hung in effigy in Los Angeles. Sandra Bernhardt said she should be raped, and not a few other people gleefully called for her death. . .
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When did Olbermann do that? I googled and found him condemning her for bringing up RFK's assassination in the context of Obama's campaign.
That other stuff I never heard of. If true, it's beyond the pale. I'm pretty vitriolic and I don't say stuff like that or make jokes like that.
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Rufus Polson
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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It seems unlikely--I don't know a lot about Olberman, but it doesn't seem like his style. Maybe that person is getting him mixed with someone?
I notice that later in the post, she mentions
| Quote: | | Lots of people were foaming at the mouth about Sarah Palin. There was the “art” exhibit in New York inviting people to play at shooting her with a rifle. |
But then if you follow the link to the article about that exhibit, it says
| Quote: | | Visitors can don a fake-fur vest and hold a cardboard rifle to pose with the vice-presidential candidate and her daughter. |
I guess she's inferring that what the artist really wants is for people to play shooting at Palin rather than pose with her, or that that's what many people would prefer to do, or something? But she seems like one of those people who rearranges things a bit to suit her gut reactions. |
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thwap
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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yeah i only sorta follow the news so i wouldn't be too surprise to have missed something, but that stuff sounds bizarre.
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Rufus Polson
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Searosia wrote: |
My comment is in part because I'll have that 'Do words mean anything discussion' and using words of another language (still words, unless your argument is words of a different language aren't) to dismiss that question is exactly that...a dismissal...not a dismantle nor an argument. |
It's a silly question, though. You can argue about it, I guess, and have lots of fun with it . . . but if it was a question with any merit, you wouldn't be able to understand the question or have an argument in the first place.
The question comes from a realization that language is imprecise, and basically panicking. Some people in academic settings panic for years, occasionally getting paid lucrative salaries to do so. But imprecision does not imply emptiness. Even the English Lit world is nowadays coming to grips with this.
In any case, it's hardly a politician's problem except in the sense that if words don't have meaning, she's out of a job--nobody's gonna pay her to obfuscate meaning that was never there. |
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Searosia
The Rain King
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Location: Back in Calgary!
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Sady was comparing her winning an arguement with her first boyfriend in a bush vs gore discussion (and her boyfriends violent reaction when she was winning) to the Loughner becoming violent because "losing an argument to a woman fueled his anger and bitterness against her to the point that he later became violent?". I don't really see that Giffords dismissal as 'winning the arguement'...it was dismissing it. What Sady says is true, I just think he reacted worse to the clever dismissal.
Admittadely, I also think Loughner is dillusional if he felt Gifford somehow had the responsibility to engage with that type of discussion with him.
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Senor Magoo
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| Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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So the going theory is that he shot someone in the head three days ago for a slight he felt he got, four years ago? That's revenge served ice cold. One wonders about his thought processes.
"No woman treats me like that!! I'll show her!!! Not this year, and not next year, and maybe not even the year after that, but one of these years -- maybe Q1 of 2011 -- she'll be sorry she ever dissed me!"
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bshmr
Fulltime enMasse Member
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:36 am Post subject: |
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Though we all may do it, we merely SPECULATE on motivations, which are complex and subject to manipulation for the most part.
Apparently, an attention-seeking, possibly delusional, maladapted, young male atheist of secretive parents of a minority religion premeditated and attacked a female leader, who happens to be of the same minority religion and approximate generation of his parent(s), as well as others at an open-air public meeting.in a region of extreme individualism and fantasized libertarianism of a [ETA: ultra-dominating military] country of richly rewarded, haloed, rabble-rousing, self-serving, (likely) psychopathic entertainers, politicians, and executives. |
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Maestro
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| Senor Magoo wrote: | So the going theory is that he shot someone in the head three days ago for a slight he felt he got, four years ago? That's revenge served ice cold. One wonders about his thought processes.
"No woman treats me like that!! I'll show her!!! Not this year, and not next year, and maybe not even the year after that, but one of these years -- maybe Q1 of 2011 -- she'll be sorry she ever dissed me!" |
According to the WSJ:
| Quote: | Accused gunman Jared Lee Loughner appeared to have been long obsessed with U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.
A safe at Mr. Loughner's home contained a form letter from Ms. Giffords' office thanking him for attending a 2007 "Congress on your Corner'' event in Tucson. The safe also held an envelope with handwritten notes, including the name of Ms. Giffords, as well as "I planned ahead," "My assassination,"... |
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fork
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| thwap wrote: |
When did Olbermann do that? |
Olbermann calls for Clinton's murder
Links to shakesville which has a clip.
| Quote: | | Meanwhile, Keith Olbermann discusses with Howard Fineman the need for a superdelegate to "take [Clinton] into a room and only he comes out." |
| Rufus Polson wrote: | | It seems unlikely--I don't know a lot about Olberman, but it doesn't seem like his style. |
Actually, there's been quite a lot of criticisms of Olbermann, in the feminist blogosphere, anyway. Most recently, about Julian Assange and #mooreandme.
About the art exhibit, if you click on the video, the voiceover says, "Petrilik says most people have fun wearing the vest and holding the gun, and most feel free to hold it many different ways." Then the artist says, "A lot of people have shot her, and I think that's sort of gross, but in the true spirit of democracy, I'm not going to tell them what to do." So while the exhibit didn't say, "Come shoot Sarah Palin", that more than a few people are coming up with the idea to shoot her, well, some might construe that as involving some sort of invitation. |
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TS.
Delicious schadenfreude
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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That link still doesn't provide an exact quote. I need to see the exact quote before I make my judgment. As it is, that blogger seems to have an agenda to push in terms of promoting Clinton's campaign for the nomination.
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thwap
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Well, that was Hillary's "hard working white people" moment and I think a lot of Democratic partisans would have been furious at a male politician for threatening to salt the earth against the likely winner. Tom Tomorrow excoriated Clinton after that one (but not like Olbermann just did).
But that was still eliminationist rhetoric, whether against a male or a female, and I find it dubious to think that Olbermann would have come up with an off-the-cuff statement like that about a male leader taking another male candidate into a room and destroying him in there.
So, yeah, that was sexist and inexcusable. Which just means that the whole culture has imbued this violent mentality, with the right-wingers being still, obviously, the leading candidates.
I said at Dr. Dawg's blog that the comparisons between Ann Coulter and Michael Moor bear this out. He does not shoot off at the mouth about killing people the way that idiot does. If he's the left's Ann Coulter that says something.
It's why we were right to trash Tom Flanagan's nonsense about assassinating Julian Assange and Don Cherry's imbecilic making war an amusement park holiday. That sort of garbage culture is insidiously dangerous.
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Change
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Olbermann did say that. Anyways.
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Rufus Polson
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Watched the clip. OK, yup, he said it. Ick. Interestingly, he did it even as he criticized Clinton for excessively negative, destructive campaigning (accurately, near as I can make out). So it's like he didn't even perceive the contradiction. |
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TS.
Delicious schadenfreude
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 14585
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Do you have a link to the clip?
ETA: Found a HuffPo piece with the specific quote. I have no hesitation saying that what Olbermann said is absolutely reprehensible.
ETA: You can find the clip here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TxjplGs5YM
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The Evil Twin
Stoned Immaculate
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 3748
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:04 am Post subject: |
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Ouch. That clip was a horrid reminder of just how nasty that 2008 campaign was and how low supporters of each candidate resorted to covert and overt appeals to sexism or racism. For the record, I don't believe that either Clinton or Obama were personally racist or sexist, but their respective supporters had no trouble evoking such imagery.
The strangest thing of course is just how little actual ideological differences there were between the two in terms of foreign or domestic policy (as seen both by their platforms and also how well they work together today) but the vile language from their respective supporters (and Olberman's was one of the worst) made one think this was MLK vs. George Wallace in the 60s or Lenin and Trotsky vs. the Czar in 1917. Hmmm, the "narcissism of small differences", maybe? (Kinda like the hatred between the Martin and Chretien camps in Canada, though since both were rich white males, we were spared the sexism or racism)
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I can't support bike lanes. Roads are built for buses, cars, and trucks. My heart bleeds when someone gets killed, but it's their own fault at the end of the day. - Assclown Rob Ford |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 5570
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| Change wrote: | | Olbermann did say that. Anyways. |
He has apologized
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This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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voice of the damned
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 6195
Location: slandered, libeled
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| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:07 am Post subject: |
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Toronto radio host intervenes to spare funeral attendees the pleasure of a Phelps visit.
| Quote: | TORONTO - Members of a radical Kansas church have cancelled plans to picket the funeral of a nine-year-old girl killed in a shooting rampage in Arizona, after being promised a live interview on a Toronto radio station.
Dean Blundell, a controversial morning show host on rock radio station 102.1 The Edge, said he brokered the deal with Shirley Phelps-Roper of the Westboro Baptist Church in an effort to prevent further suffering for the victim's family.
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| Quote: | Phelps Roper said Westboro still plans to picket the funerals of other victims, but Blundell hopes to change her mind by allowing her to give a repeat performance on Thursday's program. During the broadcast, scheduled for 9 a.m., Blundell said he plans to ask her to boycott the Friday funeral of slain judge John Roll and other victims of the Arizona shooting.
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fork
Utensil
Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 1283
Location: Left . . . of the plate
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| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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From the article:
| Quote: | Blundell concedes Phelps-Roper's appearances are usually billed as entertainment, saying her views are so outrageous that listeners can't help but laugh.
"It's like someone calling in and saying the colour blue is really the colour red," he said. "And the funny part is she really believes it." |
If those views were so outrageous, Toronto wouldn't have gay-bashing. So no, it's not like saying the colour blue is really the colour red. I guess we can add post-homophobic to claims that we live in a post-racial and post-feminist world.
Incidentally, when I was looking up what Blundell said about Beiber fans (that preceded the above quote), I came across an article that said the whole thing started when Blundell tweeted "in vulgar terms" the suggestion that Beiber was gay.
As for the radio station, they suspended Blundell when Jackass guests violated strict guidelines regarding graphic content and foul language. So dropping the f-bomb and duct-taping your penis is verboten, but spewing hate against gays is A-OK? And they're actually scheduling a slot for it?
| Quote: | | Word of the church's plans prompted Arizona legislators to rush through a law prohibiting protests within 100 metres of a funeral or burial service. |
Here's the bill. Since Phelps' crew is already barred from protesting within 300 feet, Blundell is really just sparing the funeral attendees that can't find a parking spot within 300 feet of the church, which likely excludes the family and others close to the deceased. Yeah, everyone will probably see them and hear them as they're driving past, but Phelps' ability to disrupt the service is sufficiently compromised by the bill, IMHO, and makes Blundell's overture superfluous.
And, wow, the speed with which a state can enact buffer zone laws. And the restrictiveness compared to buffer zone laws outside abortion clinics. I looked for Arizona buffer zone laws re: abortion, but only found a reference at an anti-abortion site criticizing Giffords for supporting such a law. So Arizona would be subject to the federal FACE Act:
| Quote: | What behavior does FACE not prohibit?
FACE protects protesters' First Amendment right to free speech. Clinic protesters remain free to conduct peaceful protest, including singing hymns, praying, carrying signs, walking picket lines and distributing anti-abortion materials outside of clinics.
Is shouting outside of a clinic a FACE violation?
FACE allows shouting outside of clinics, as long as no threats are made. However, noise levels many not exceed those set by state or local law. |
One of Fred's grandsons spit in the face of a passerby, but that's all I could find for specific violent acts perpetrated by the Phelps. Compare to anti-abortion violence.
There are other states that have enacted laws against protesting (even peaceful protests) at funerals. See heading Laws limiting funeral protests. There's even a federal one protecting military cemeteries from protest. Maybe while America is having a conversation about violence and rhetoric, it can examine the response to protest vs. response to actual violence. |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 5570
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Why I love Paul Jay
| Quote: | Benjamin DeMott put it well: “‘civility’ is in fact a theater of operations - the classless society’s new class war zone.”
Instead of using ‘civility’ to cover up the realities of life, how about we call for a people’s civility intended to better reveal it.
We can start by telling the truth about the society we live in. Let’s examine with honest and uncompromising inquiry, the actual conditions of life in America, without fearing the words race and class. Let those who want collective solutions try to find some common ground with those who distrust big government - which almost everyone agrees serves the top 2% more than anybody else. Let’s agree that we value individual rights and freedom and understand that can only be meaningful in a more equitable society.
How about we answer this question: how can our schools and public health care system better intervene with students when there are obvious signs of psychotic disorders? What can we do to address the cultural, political, healthcare and law enforcement issues that have lead to so many mass shootings by disturbed young men? What policy would be in the public interest? |
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This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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bshmr
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 4004
Location: Central USA, Earth
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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If one dis-trusts governments and bureaucrats, skip this as a needless waste, fabrication, propaganda, mind control, ... Besides, it is long, etc.
If one generally trusts the bureaucrats in the USAn government, this may be helpful.
Fame Through Assassination: A Secret Service Study
Date:Yesterday 23:00
| Quote: | | Very rarely is politics the primary motive behind assassinations or assassination attempts, says a 1999 Secret Service study. Rather, public figures are chosen because in the assassin's mind, it's a guaranteed way to transform from a "nobody" into a "somebody." |
http://www.npr.org/2011/01/14/132909487/fame-through-assassination-... |
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bshmr
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 4004
Location: Central USA, Earth
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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Referred to this one via an unrelated feed. Stimulating, in a neutral, academic sort of way; sans conclusions.
Arizona state of mind
By Amy Silverman; Sunday, January 16, 2011
IN PHOENIX Last Saturday, Jan. 8, began sunny and crisp in a tangle of leotards and tights, as I hustled my little girls across town and into the dance studio - as always, just a few moments late.
...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/14/AR2... |
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fork
Utensil
Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 1283
Location: Left . . . of the plate
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:28 am Post subject: |
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Did Misogyny Influence Jared Loughner?
| Quote: | At a small local branch of a major bank, for example, the tellers would have their fingers on the alarm button whenever they saw him approaching.
It was not just his appearance — the pale shaved head and eyebrows — that unnerved them. It was also the aggressive, often sexist things that he said, including asserting that women should not be allowed to hold positions of power or authority.
One individual with knowledge of the situation said Mr. Loughner once got into a dispute with a female branch employee after she told him that a request of his would violate bank policy. He brusquely challenged the woman, telling her that she should not have any power. |
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TS.
Delicious schadenfreude
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 14585
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| fork wrote: | Did Misogyny Influence Jared Loughner?
| Quote: | At a small local branch of a major bank, for example, the tellers would have their fingers on the alarm button whenever they saw him approaching.
It was not just his appearance — the pale shaved head and eyebrows — that unnerved them. It was also the aggressive, often sexist things that he said, including asserting that women should not be allowed to hold positions of power or authority.
One individual with knowledge of the situation said Mr. Loughner once got into a dispute with a female branch employee after she told him that a request of his would violate bank policy. He brusquely challenged the woman, telling her that she should not have any power. |
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Aggravating, but not surprising, that he would hold such views and then target a female Representative.
It seems more and more likely that, in the end, there won't be any one cause behind Loughner's attempt to assassinate Giffords. I would expect that the events ultimately resulted from a combination of misogyny, anti-government paranoia and untreated mental illness. At least since Loughner is alive, there is a chance that he may one day explain his motivations, if Arizona doesn't execute him first.
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"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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bshmr
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 4004
Location: Central USA, Earth
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| TS. wrote: | | ... It seems more and more likely that, in the end, there won't be any one cause behind Loughner's attempt to assassinate Giffords. I would expect that the events ultimately resulted from a combination of misogyny, anti-government paranoia and untreated mental illness. At least since Loughner is alive, there is a chance that he may one day explain his motivations, if Arizona doesn't execute him first. |
Quickly, I speculated about his parents as well as the missing ammunition later found cached in the creek/wash bed that he used to escape his father. |
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sparqui
Dog tired
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 5166
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| bshmr wrote: | | TS. wrote: | | ... It seems more and more likely that, in the end, there won't be any one cause behind Loughner's attempt to assassinate Giffords. I would expect that the events ultimately resulted from a combination of misogyny, anti-government paranoia and untreated mental illness. At least since Loughner is alive, there is a chance that he may one day explain his motivations, if Arizona doesn't execute him first. |
Quickly, I speculated about his parents as well as the missing ammunition later found cached in the creek/wash bed that he used to escape his father. |
Did he have a bad relationship with his parents?
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“If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a tractor.”
-- Gilles Duceppe |
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bshmr
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 4004
Location: Central USA, Earth
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| sparqui wrote: | | Did he have a bad relationship with his parents? |
Possible to likely, one might reasonably speculate. He professes atheism while his mother was alleged and Giffords is Jewish; when Jarrod refused to open his bag and simply left, his father attempted to follow him (but not on foot as Jarrod was); family considered more 'private' than most and more so in the preceding three years; friends remarking of his attention seeking as well as their fear of him lately; ... . The additional revelations about blatant misogamy, which is typically learned, etc.
A portion of his behavior may be reactionary, surely not all of it.
Purely speculation on my part. |
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al-Qa'bong
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 6169
Location: A monistic vulgarity in which nobility and wisdom have been exchanged for a pale belief in progress
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The competition was tough, but today's Tone-Deaf Award goes to Arizona's GOP, which is holding a fundraising raffle. First prize: a Glock handgun, like the one used to shoot Gabrielle Giffords in the head. The raffle is in Pima County, where the shooting took place. |
Glock in Arizona: Tickets Will Go Quickly For This Firearm!
This is either funny, or yet another sign that the USA should soon expect hordes of locusts, plagues and pestilence to reward it for its Biblically-proportioned sinfulness.
_________________
"The purpose of government is to protect the weak from the powerful" Hammurabi
"We can't all be Sam the Sham; some of us have to be Pharoahs" Larry, brother of Darrel, and his other brother Daryl |
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bshmr
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 4004
Location: Central USA, Earth
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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I have difficulty stomaching this sort of 'control-freak' crap. In this case, prosecutors insist on making reality match their fantasies -- drug and train a definite psychotic (or POW) 'to behave' in prison or court for the glory of who and what. Aside, with POWs it helps to make them psychotic first with sleep deprivation, constant noise, un-natural lighting (24-hour or diurnal disrupting), punitive 'obedience training', etc.
Loughner Returns To Arizona For Wed. Hearing
Date:Today 06:22
The suspect in the Tucson shooting rampage has been transported to Arizona after spending months at a Missouri prison facility where experts were trying to make him mentally fit to stand trial.
http://www.kmbc.com/news/29313075/detail.html |
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al-Qa'bong
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 6169
Location: A monistic vulgarity in which nobility and wisdom have been exchanged for a pale belief in progress
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| Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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This story would have fit well into the Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin shooting thread, if we had one.
| Quote: | | Raul Rodriguez, a retired firefighter in Texas, is on trial for killing elementary school teacher Kelly Danaher and wounding two others after he confronted them about their party's loud music. Rodriquez claims he was just “standing my ground” - albeit on their property, after he baited and threatened them. Incredibly, he videotaped the entire incident; even more incredibly, he seems to think the chilling evidence will help his case. |
Oh, Do Let's All Just Shoot Each Other Over Every Little Thing, Shall We?
_________________
"The purpose of government is to protect the weak from the powerful" Hammurabi
"We can't all be Sam the Sham; some of us have to be Pharoahs" Larry, brother of Darrel, and his other brother Daryl |
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al-Qa'bong
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 6169
Location: A monistic vulgarity in which nobility and wisdom have been exchanged for a pale belief in progress
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:40 am Post subject: |
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So it goes...
3 dead after Alabama pool party shooting
_________________
"The purpose of government is to protect the weak from the powerful" Hammurabi
"We can't all be Sam the Sham; some of us have to be Pharoahs" Larry, brother of Darrel, and his other brother Daryl |
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Slumberjack
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Posts: 1004
Location: squelch~~big waves and high smiles from the stomach and intestine of capital.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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There's no more deserving a society than a self declared indispensable one.
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At its zero-level, ideology could thus be understood as a system of beliefs which enable us to sustain our position within liberal-democratic capitalism. |
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al-Qa'bong
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 6169
Location: A monistic vulgarity in which nobility and wisdom have been exchanged for a pale belief in progress
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:47 am Post subject: |
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You can't make this stuff up.
| Quote: |
A West Virginia man who told authorities that he was hitchhiking across the country and writing a memoir about kindness was injured in a seemingly random drive-by shooting near Montana's booming Bakken oil patch.
Ray Dolin, 39, was shot in the arm as he approached a pickup on Saturday evening thinking the driver was offering him a ride, said Valley County Sheriff Glen Meier. |
Bail set after hitchhiker writing book on kindness shot near Glasgow
_________________
"The purpose of government is to protect the weak from the powerful" Hammurabi
"We can't all be Sam the Sham; some of us have to be Pharoahs" Larry, brother of Darrel, and his other brother Daryl |
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Slumberjack
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Posts: 1004
Location: squelch~~big waves and high smiles from the stomach and intestine of capital.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:42 am Post subject: |
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The epilogue should be interesting.
_________________
At its zero-level, ideology could thus be understood as a system of beliefs which enable us to sustain our position within liberal-democratic capitalism. |
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al-Qa'bong
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 6169
Location: A monistic vulgarity in which nobility and wisdom have been exchanged for a pale belief in progress
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | An American man accused of attacking his girlfriend with a pair of sauce-covered pants is facing charges of assault and battery with a dangerous weapon: |
WASABI!
_________________
"The purpose of government is to protect the weak from the powerful" Hammurabi
"We can't all be Sam the Sham; some of us have to be Pharoahs" Larry, brother of Darrel, and his other brother Daryl |
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6079_Smith_W
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2011
Posts: 592
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| Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Battery? Don't you mean tempura? |
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