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qualm faubourg
Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 27
Location: cordova bay
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 Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| Not quite the Junuary as last year, huh? |
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Doug
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1042
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:38 am Post subject: |
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China"s Number One!
| Quote: | China has overtaken the United States as the world's biggest producer of carbon dioxide, the chief greenhouse gas, figures released today show.
The surprising announcement will increase anxiety about China's growing role in driving man-made global warming and will pile pressure onto world politicians to agree a new global agreement on climate change that includes the booming Chinese economy. |
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leftcoastguy
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 5977
Location: Leftcoast
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| Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 4:14 am Post subject: |
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Nelson Skalbania, for Christ's sake, is now selling carbon trading emissions. Get this, his wife's Vancouver hotel is vouching for these trading emissions.  
Consumers don't be conned - it is up to businesses such as airlines to address their CO2 emissions, not the traveling public.
It's time for some serious consumer activism to ensure businesses pay the price for their polluting ways.
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anne cameron
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 2626
Location: tahsis, british columbia
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| Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Now THERE'S a name to make you shudder! |
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leftcoastguy
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 5977
Location: Leftcoast
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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How hot will it get!
| Quote: | | A ferocious heatwave that has gripped the western United States was expected to continue on Friday, with sizzling record temperatures forecast across the sun-baked region. |
| Quote: | | Several cities across the affected states witnessed record high temperatures on Thursday, including Las Vegas, where arriving tourists were greeted by furnace-like temperatures of 117 degrees F (47 C). |
Western US states swelter under record heatwave
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Thinking is so overrated. |
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Wee Mousie
thereby hangs a tail
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 2295
Location: 'twixt cinder block and drywall.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | 'No sun link' to climate change
By Richard Black
BBC Environment Correspondent
July 10, 2007
A new scientific study concludes that changes in the Sun's output cannot be causing modern-day climate change.
It shows that for the last 20 years, the Sun's output has declined, yet temperatures on Earth have risen.
It also shows that modern temperatures are not determined by the Sun's effect on cosmic rays, as has been claimed.
Writing in the Royal Society's journal Proceedings A, the researchers say cosmic rays may have affected climate in the past, but not the present.
"This should settle the debate," said Mike Lockwood from the UK's Rutherford-Appleton Laboratory, who carried out the new analysis together with Claus Froehlich from the World Radiation Center in Switzerland.
Dr Lockwood initiated the study partially in response to the TV documentary The Great Global Warming Swindle, broadcast on Britain's Channel Four earlier this year, which featured the cosmic ray hypothesis.
"All the graphs they showed stopped in about 1980, and I knew why, because things diverged after that," he told the BBC News website.
"You can't just ignore bits of data that you don't like," he said. . . .
. . . Mike Lockwood's analysis appears to have put a large, probably fatal nail in this intriguing and elegant hypothesis.
He said: "I do think there is a cosmic ray effect on cloud cover. It works in clean maritime air where there isn't much else for water vapour to condense around.
"It might even have had a significant effect on pre-industrial climate. But you cannot apply it to what we're seeing now, because we're in a completely different ball game."
Drs Svensmark and Friis-Christensen could not be reached for comment.
Link to Full Article
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Relieve The Troops — Bring Them Home Now! |
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transplant
Starting Over Again
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1707
Location: somewhere between here and there
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Wee Mousie wrote: | | No sun link' to climate change |
Don't hold your breath that this will in any way dampen the enthusiasm of any solar-forcing proponent denialists. They will likely just assert that the study is biased, and/or charge that it is an attempt to silence dissenting researchers.
A recent study showing that some glaciers in the western Himalaya are growing due to increased monsoon snowfall while those in the eastern Himalaya and most of the rest of the world are shrinking is being spun as proof that global warming is not happening, despite the fact that the researchers made no such idiotic assertion in their paper.
Right now there is a concerted denialist campaign to discredit the ground temperature station network with claims that it is biased by urban heat islands and microclimate factors, despite the fact that these bias are well known and compensated for, and despite the fact that rural stations show an even stronger increasing temperature trend. There is also a concerted effort to actually claim that atmospheric CO2 is saturated and can not be responsible for any further rise in temperature, and even in some quarters that CO2 is not a greenhouse gas at all, despite that fact that this has been known and shown experimentally for over a century.
Climate change deniers will stop at nothing to spread doubt about the science. They are experts at spin, obfuscation, misinformation, disinformation and outright lying. With public opinion and political direction clearly shifting toward actually doing something about CO2 emissions they are pulling out all the stops in an attempt to head it off, and it's getting more and more nasty. |
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Reverend Blair
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 2250
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Climate change deniers will stop at nothing to spread doubt about the science. They are experts at spin, obfuscation, misinformation, disinformation and outright lying. With public opinion and political direction clearly shifting toward actually doing something about CO2 emissions they are pulling out all the stops in an attempt to head it off, and it's getting more and more nasty. |
That's the real problem. These people are very close to the creationists in a lot of tactics, they've been tied to the tobacco industry denialists too. Lately they seem to be making inroads into the conspiracy theorist community.
I'm beginning to wonder if they shouldn't be charged with fraud or something.
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He was a wise man who invented beer.
--Plato |
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Tehanu
More or less, more or less
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 16607
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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The Arctic ice has shrunk to the lowest level on record, with one more month of melting to go.
Denials, anyone?
| Quote: | There was less sea ice in the Arctic on Friday than ever before on record, and the melting is continuing, the U.S. National Snow and Ice Data Center reported.
"Today is a historic day," said Mark Serreze, a senior research scientist at the centre. "This is the least sea ice we've ever seen in the satellite record and we have another month left to go in the melt season this year."
... But, Serreze said in a telephone interview, while some natural variability is involved in the melting, "we simply can't explain everything through natural processes."
... The puzzling thing, he said, is that the melting is actually occurring faster than computer climate models have predicted.
Several years ago he would have predicted a complete melt of Arctic sea ice in summer would occur by the year 2070 to 2100, Serreze said. But at the rates now occurring, a complete melt could happen by 2030, he said Friday. |
CBC |
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Reverend Blair
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 2250
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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When it's cold, you can expect some shrinkage.
It's because the Liberals drink Scotch on the rocks.
Dinosaurs didn't drive SUVs.
Your (sic) a commie, and so is all them scientists.
But Mars is warming up too.
CO2 helps plants grow.
Al Gore and David Suzuki aren't poor.
Canada is too cold anyway.
Howz that?
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He was a wise man who invented beer.
--Plato |
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anne cameron
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 2626
Location: tahsis, british columbia
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:07 am Post subject: |
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The records don't go back far enough
This has happened before and it's why Mu disappeared and Atlantis sank
It's those socialist hordes in their aluminum foil hats
Trees cause the problem, Ronny GayGun said so
It's all those farting cows
Too much hot air coming from Snottawa. |
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sparqui
Dog tired
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 4466
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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This is rich:
| Quote: | ...Another laugh is the fact that the Conservative Party is sponsoring a NASCAR auto. Given that global warming is one of our pressing issues, one even the Conservatives have decided to pretend that they care about, why would anyone concerned with the environment support a wasteful, polluting racing car? Why would anyone even go watch one?
Quite frankly if one is concerned about global warming and has an IQ bigger than their shoe size, then supporting auto racing is one of things that is automatically on the stupid list. Which leads us to the conclusion that either the Conservatives are stupid, or are angling for the stupid vote.... |
http://www.rabble.ca/columnists_full.shtml?x=61707
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“If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a tractor.”
-- Gilles Duceppe |
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TS.
Delicious schadenfreude
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 13148
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 12:59 am Post subject: |
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I have just finished reading the introduction to a 46 page policy paper by the Liberal Democratic Party of the UK on how they would set out to achieve a zero-carbon Britain. It looks so far to be very good. It would be fantastic if governments would pick up on this. It might also be something the NDP could consider as part of their climate programme. After all, we can all agree that nothing being done now will be enough to stave off catastrophic climate change. A bold vision like zero carbon economies are both necessary and the kind of exciting proposal that can catch the interest of the public and build support to make it happen.
You can find the PDF of the policy paper ("Zero Carbon Britain - Taking a Global Lead) here.
_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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anne cameron
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 2626
Location: tahsis, british columbia
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:41 am Post subject: |
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I've been watching a fair bit of TV news the past few days and you'd think "climate change" was something which might possibly happen some time toward the end of the next century...
hey, newsflash, it's here! Now.
Usually, here in Tahsis, we get eight months of monsoon type rain and then we get a month and a half of glorious spring which merges into the most incredible summers, LAST year we had day after day after day of sunshine and heat, everyone tanned and laughing and off to the beach with the kids and
then there's this summer. I think we had it on a tuesday and wednesday at the end of July. The rest of the time it has been cool to cold, overcast to pelting rain, not enough light to bother talking about and long sleeves much of the time, even jackets and sweaters. And rain, rain, rain. Usually we get thirteen to fifteen feet of rain per year. I think we got that in August, so help me Harry.
But MSM still wants to bury our heads in the sand for us.
NASCAR, oh of course, yes, certainly. And keep on advertising for people to fly here there and everywhere on whim. And ...coal fired electrical generation...and industry given special carbon trading credits and...
blah blah blah
bah humbug! |
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Reverend Blair
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 2250
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It might also be something the NDP could consider as part of their climate programme. After all, we can all agree that nothing being done now will be enough to stave off catastrophic climate change. A bold vision like zero carbon economies are both necessary and the kind of exciting proposal that can catch the interest of the public and build support to make it happen. |
I agree, TS. This is something the NDP can be way out in front on and I don't understnd why they aren't.
Canada is quite well-placed for a zero, or at least very low, carbon economy in the long term.
We have a lot of access to altrnative energy resources...solar, wind, tidal etc., for electricity. We also have advantages when it comes to hydrogen power because of our expertise with hydro-electricity, since what you need to make hydrogen is electricity and water.
I think the NDP has shied away from this, at least in part, because they are afraid of a backlash in oil-producing provinces.
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He was a wise man who invented beer.
--Plato |
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TS.
Delicious schadenfreude
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 13148
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Reverend Blair wrote: | | I think the NDP has shied away from this, at least in part, because they are afraid of a backlash in oil-producing provinces. |
I'm not sure about that. Let's examine the major oil (and hydrocarbon) producing provinces, moving west to east, and NDP seat-counts there:
1) Alberta: zero seats
2) Saskatchewan: zero seats
3) Nova Scotia: two seats
4) Newfoundland and Labrador: zero seats
Essentially fear of a backlash for this kind of policy would be fear over the loss of two seats. And I very much doubt that this kind of plan would engender the kind of backlash in Halifax that would cost Alexa her seat, which means Peter Stoffer would be the only one at risk, and I don't think much of a risk at that.
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"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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Rufus Polson
Purple Library Guy
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 2877
Location: SFU and/or the college of Riddlemastery at Caithnard
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Reverend Blair wrote: |
I agree, TS. This is something the NDP can be way out in front on and I don't understnd why they aren't.
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Mind you, I've gotten to the point lately where any time anyone says something like this on any topic, I ask myself "Are the NDP not way out in front on this, or is it just that nobody's heard what their stance might be?"
The NDP seems to be suffering from a combination news blackout and lousy communications strategy. Their policies seem to be sitting inside the box with Schrodinger's cat, with an equal chance of turning out to be great or lousy when the wave function collapses. |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 4123
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| TS. wrote: | | Reverend Blair wrote: | | I think the NDP has shied away from this, at least in part, because they are afraid of a backlash in oil-producing provinces. |
I'm not sure about that. Let's examine the major oil (and hydrocarbon) producing provinces, moving west to east, and NDP seat-counts there:
1) Alberta: zero seats
2) Saskatchewan: zero seats
3) Nova Scotia: two seats
4) Newfoundland and Labrador: zero seats
Essentially fear of a backlash for this kind of policy would be fear over the loss of two seats. And I very much doubt that this kind of plan would engender the kind of backlash in Halifax that would cost Alexa her seat, which means Peter Stoffer would be the only one at risk, and I don't think much of a risk at that. |
I don't think there's any connection. There are a number of reasons why there are no Saskatchewan seats, and there's no traditional base in the Atlantic provinces for the NDP. And in terms of calls for limits on the Alberta oil industry, I think you'll find that the loudest calls for that are coming from within Alberta. (It was Alberta New Democrats who brought forward resolutions on such issues at the last convention.)
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This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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Tehanu
More or less, more or less
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 16607
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:35 am Post subject: |
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| Hey DS2, good to see you again! Hope you had a good summer! |
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sparqui
Dog tired
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 4466
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:39 am Post subject: |
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I'm also glad to see you back DSquared.
I was a little disappointed that I didn't here back on the GMO question from the NDP. The only person that answered was Wayne Easter,
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-- Gilles Duceppe |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 4123
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:49 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Tehanu and sparqui. I had some computer problems over the last little bit, but they are now fortuantely behind me.
_________________
This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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Reverend Blair
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 2250
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I'm not sure about that. Let's examine the major oil (and hydrocarbon) producing provinces, moving west to east, and NDP seat-counts there:
1) Alberta: zero seats
2) Saskatchewan: zero seats
3) Nova Scotia: two seats
4) Newfoundland and Labrador: zero seats
Essentially fear of a backlash for this kind of policy would be fear over the loss of two seats. And I very much doubt that this kind of plan would engender the kind of backlash in Halifax that would cost Alexa her seat, which means Peter Stoffer would be the only one at risk, and I don't think much of a risk at that. |
The NDP would like back into Saskatchewan though, and would like to grow in Nova Scotia and Newfoundland. It's not the fear of losing two seats, it's the fear of turning three provinces into versions of Alberta, at least when it comes to NDP seats.
Still, I think the answer to that is to point out the advantages of oil in a low-carbon environment.
One of the things that really bugs me about fossil fuels is that we make so many things from oil that burning it seems really stupid...like ripping out your walls so you can use the studs for firewood.
The long-term advantages of alternative energies should be of particular interest to those provinces, given their natural resources. The diversification opportunites should interest them too, given that they've all suffered from having concentrated economies in the past.
I think the NDP could get out in front on this issue and actually increase their vote in those provinces if it was handled right. I don't think that's been thought of though.
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He was a wise man who invented beer.
--Plato |
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Searosia
The Rain King
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 483
Location: Mississauga
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | 1) Alberta: zero seats |
Didn't the NDP come the closest to winning an Alberta seat outside of the Cons? I thought there was an Edmonton riding that had a particularily strong NDP base... Strathcona?
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Now is not the time for you Liberal fools, its time for a witch hunt. - Bloc Party |
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5 minutes to midnight
Friendly co-dictator of the board
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1193
Location: The Okanagan, British Columbia
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Searosia wrote: | | Quote: | | 1) Alberta: zero seats |
Didn't the NDP come the closest to winning an Alberta seat outside of the Cons? I thought there was an Edmonton riding that had a particularily strong NDP base... Strathcona? |
Yep. That seat is where many U of A students live.
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To be a true radical is to make hope possible, rather than despair convincing
- Raymond Williams |
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Cartman
Beyond cuddly
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 8284
Location: Conservative Reform Alliance Party = CRAP
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| 5 minutes to midnight wrote: | | Searosia wrote: | | Quote: | | 1) Alberta: zero seats |
Didn't the NDP come the closest to winning an Alberta seat outside of the Cons? I thought there was an Edmonton riding that had a particularily strong NDP base... Strathcona? |
Yep. That seat is where many U of A students live. |
The NDP has won the riding at the provincial level in the past. |
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Searosia
The Rain King
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 483
Location: Mississauga
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The NDP has won the riding at the provincial level in the past. |
Err, in the past? I thought there was 3 seats... Raj, Mason (I think?), and one other. Sorry... My Alberta provincial politics knowledge is lacking (which means I'd make a great Albertan apparently)
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Now is not the time for you Liberal fools, its time for a witch hunt. - Bloc Party |
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Cartman
Beyond cuddly
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 8284
Location: Conservative Reform Alliance Party = CRAP
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Searosia wrote: | | Quote: | | The NDP has won the riding at the provincial level in the past. |
Err, in the past? I thought there was 3 seats... Raj, Mason (I think?), and one other. Sorry... My Alberta provincial politics knowledge is lacking (which means I'd make a great Albertan apparently) |
I think we once had 16 seats provincially here in the mid/late 1980s. One or two in Calgary even. |
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transplant
Starting Over Again
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1707
Location: somewhere between here and there
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:42 am Post subject: |
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From the Ontario Libertarian Party platform plank on the environment and climate change:
| Quote: | | Today there is a lot of hot air about respecting nature, but there is no respect for the nature of man, who requires freedom to act and choose. “Green-house gases", such as carbon dioxide, which are blamed for global earth-warming are a natural by-product of living and breathing human beings. Individuals must be free to do what they think is best for their own well being, and that includes burning fuels to heat their homes and to run their vehicles and businesses. |
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TS.
Delicious schadenfreude
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 13148
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:53 am Post subject: |
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This sounds an awful lot like those bullcrap ads out of the American coal industry about how fighting global warming would deprive us of the carbon on which life is based. It ultimately concluded that halting global climate change would kill us all.
_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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transplant
Starting Over Again
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1707
Location: somewhere between here and there
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| TS. wrote: | | This sounds an awful lot like those bullcrap ads out of the American coal industry about how fighting global warming would deprive us of the carbon on which life is based. It ultimately concluded that halting global climate change would kill us all. |
Yeah, don't it? Yet another thing that makes it hard to take a bunch of Ayn Rand wanna-bes seriously. |
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Reverend Blair
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 2250
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | This sounds an awful lot like those bullcrap ads out of the American coal industry about how fighting global warming would deprive us of the carbon on which life is based. It ultimately concluded that halting global climate change would kill us all. |
We really need to do a better job teaching science. Then these bozos wouldn't even try this crap.
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He was a wise man who invented beer.
--Plato |
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transplant
Starting Over Again
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1707
Location: somewhere between here and there
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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Al Gore readying new environmental book
AP - For those frightened by the tale of global warming in Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth," and wondering what can be done, the former vice president has an answer: a sequel.
Gore is working on a new environmental book, "The Path to Survival," that will be released as a paperback original on April 22, 2008, Earth Day. According to publisher Rodale Books, Gore will continue where he left off in "An Inconvenient Truth" and offer "a visionary blueprint for the changes we should make as a world community."
"He (Gore) explains how making bold choices now to protect our environment will also create new jobs, propel sustainable economic improvements, and inspire a new generation to tackle our most challenging issues with moral leadership," according to a statement issued Wednesday by Rodale.
"Part scientific manual, part expose, part visionary call for a new planet-wide political movement, the book will appeal to those who were motivated by the call to action of `An Inconvenient Truth' and who are now ready to fight for the solutions that were considered politically impossible only a short time ago." ...
The thing that has always struck me about the movie An Inconvenient Truth was that after clobbering viewers with the case for catastrophic climate change the opportunity to provide them with real-world strategies and actions required to deal with it was squandered. The scrolling list of suggested actions at the end was pathetic, and the link to the webpage offered nothing more of substance. This sequel book is a good idea, but it should have been available when the movie was released. |
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Searosia
The Rain King
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 483
Location: Mississauga
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| Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not looking forward to Gore's paperback here... Heh, or atleast conflicting emotions. I get the feeling that I'm a little too pessimistic to accept Gore putting forward anything that could 'halt' the process we've long since put into motion.
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Now is not the time for you Liberal fools, its time for a witch hunt. - Bloc Party |
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5 minutes to midnight
Friendly co-dictator of the board
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1193
Location: The Okanagan, British Columbia
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Searosia wrote: | | Quote: | | The NDP has won the riding at the provincial level in the past. |
Err, in the past? I thought there was 3 seats... Raj, Mason (I think?), and one other. Sorry... My Alberta provincial politics knowledge is lacking (which means I'd make a great Albertan apparently) |
I think it belonged to "Raj against the machine" Pannu. I forget whose running there now...
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To be a true radical is to make hope possible, rather than despair convincing
- Raymond Williams |
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5 minutes to midnight
Friendly co-dictator of the board
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1193
Location: The Okanagan, British Columbia
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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Here's something...
Arctic Sea Ice retreat kicks into overdrive
Some of you following this particular story will remember that Arctic Ice reached record lows again this year, which is not that surprising. What IS surprising is that we reached the previous record low in August, with one month of melt left. Current Arctic sea ice extent is now 25% below last year's record.
| Quote: | Ice has retreated to about three million square kilometres, said Leif Toudal Pedersen, of the Danish National Space Center, in the statement. ESA said the previous low was four million square kilometres in 2005.
“There has been a reduction of the ice cover over the last 10 years of about 100,000 square kilometres per year on average, so a drop of one million square kilometres in just one year is extreme,” he said. |
This is something we really, really need to watch for next summer.
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abnormal
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 03 Jun 2006
Posts: 353
Location: somewhere over the rainbow
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, when looking at the frequency of hurricanes you do have to be very careful of the data. Historical frequencies are not necessarily comparible to current frequencies because of the technology used to identify storms.
| Quote: | Recent research may shed new light on whether the increase in hurricane activity on the Gulf Coast is part of a cycle that could end in a couple of decades, or a long-term climate trend that could last for centuries.
Two studies published this summer contend that the number of hurricanes counted in the early 20th century is lower than the number that actually formed. The reason: Weather-recording technology has improved to the point that scientists can see tropical storms now that they never would have known about 100 years ago.
The findings are important because in recent years, several researchers have factored in historical data to show that hurricane seasons have become more active. They have theorized that the more active seasons are linked to global warming.
But those theories could come into question if there were more hurricanes in the past than previously believed.
"If what I've done is reasonable, then taking into account what was missed, there's nothing you can relate to global warming," said Chris Landsea, a National Hurricane Center researcher who published one of the papers.
In the long run -- the very long run -- that would be good news for Mobile and other coastal cities, which enter every summer worrying about the death, destruction and rising insurance premiums that hurricanes can bring. |
http://www.al.com/printer/printer.ssf?/base/news/1189330481234080.x...
It's also worth noting that Katrina was not exactly unrivaled.
http://fpn.advisen.com/?resource_id=65250293-1404118557#top
| Quote: | Publication Date:
07/11/2007
Source:
Houston Chronicle (KRT)
Jul. 11--If the Great Storm of 1900 had hit Galveston two years ago, it would have inflicted $72 billion in damage, nearly as much as Hurricane Katrina, researchers say.
Already the country's deadliest hurricane with an estimated 8,000 deaths, the 1900 storm also would rank as the nation's third costliest, say hurricane scientists who sought to gauge the economic damage that historic storms would have caused if they had occurred in 2005.
Under the new analysis, which adjusted for inflation, population and coastal development, Hurricane Katrina and its $81 billion cost ranked second to the Great Miami Hurricane of 1926, which caused damage estimated at almost $140 billion. Another Galveston hurricane, in 1915, ranked fourth with $57 billion in damage.
Put simply, the devastation wrought by Katrina in 2005 was not unprecedented.
That's significant in an era when some blame global warming for catastrophic hurricanes. The research concludes that economic damage from hurricanes, after being adjusted, has remained relatively constant during the last century.
Furthermore, scientists involved in the study say, a $500 billion storm in a major metropolitan area along the U.S. coast, such as Miami or possibly even Houston, is conceivable by 2020 if present development trends continue, as expected.
When it comes to hurricanes, these scientists say, coastal development -- not warming oceans -- should perhaps be policymakers' biggest concern.
"We know what is causing increasing damages, and we know that the increase will continue," said Roger Pielke Jr., a University of Colorado climate policy scientist. "The question is whether we want to take action to reduce those future damages. The private sector, insurance and reinsurance are paying close attention to these issues. It is not clear that governments are as well."
Pielke conducted the study with colleagues at the National Hurricane Center, University College London in Britain and several private firms.
Governments should set limits on coastal development and implement rigorous building codes, Pielke said, or prepare for staggering economic losses.
The nation's first building codes were enacted in Miami after the 1926 hurricane. A recent study found that homes built under the newest Florida Building Code better withstood the devastating 2004 and 2005 hurricane seasons than those constructed earlier.
These codes are stricter than those for Texas, in part, because, until Hurricane Rita, the state had not been struck by a major hurricane in decades. Under Texas law, homes must be built to standards set forth in the International Residential Code, which requires more wind-resistant features in hurricane-prone areas.
Calls from some public officials, such as former Harris County Judge Robert Eckels, for stiffer building codes have not gained traction.
There's often less political will to limit coastal development, even in geologically tenuous areas such as barrier islands like Galveston. Leaders there are grappling with a proposal for a 1,058-acre development on the island's West End, a project whose footprint includes geologically unstable areas.
"It's very difficult to find the political will and sustain it long enough to develop new policies for coastal development," said Karen Clark, the founder of AIR Worldwide, a risk modeling company that helps insurers plan for weather catastrophes.
"Economic development always seems to take precedence in policy, and that's OK as long as there are some standards for what is being constructed and those standards are being enforced."
The new hurricane analysis, which will be published in the journal Natural Hazards Review, may also play into the debate over whether the strong storms of the last decade have been fueled by global warming or have simply reflected a natural upswing in activity.
Unlike the overall global warming issue, for which there is generally a scientific consensus, there remains uncertainty about how warming is influencing hurricane activity.
Hugh Willoughby, who directed the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's hurricane research from 1995 to 2002, said there's no evidence of warming affecting hurricanes in the new economic analysis.
"We have heard a lot of crying about doom and gloom from global warming and hurricanes," said Willoughby, now a distinguished professor at Florida International University. "But so far, at least, we're finding that the thing that predicts how much damage will happen is what's built on the beach. There's just no climate signal that shows up in the economic data."
That's because the data are flawed, said Judith Curry, an Earth science researcher at the Georgia Institute of Technology and one of the country's leading proponents of the theory that global warming is causing hurricanes to become more intense.
One problem, she says, is the inclusion of economic data from before 1929, the year of the stock market crash. Prior to then, she said, properties were grossly overvalued, and an economic comparison to modern times is not feasible. If the analysis begins in 1929, several major storms, including the 1926 Miami storm and the two major Galveston hurricanes, are removed and the curve could indicate a slightly upward trend.
There's another factor masking a real upward trend in economic damage, she said: the development of building codes, better construction techniques and improvements, such as the large dike now surrounding Lake Okeechobee and the Galveston Seawall, that mitigate storm surge damages.
"The big story should be that changing building codes and putting dikes up does work," Curry said. "That's the message, not that there's no evidence of global warming in hurricane activity."
The authors of the paper, however, say their work does consider building codes. But improvements in building codes, they say, have only been implemented recently, and their enforcement has been far from universal, meaning they have had little effect on their data.
"The Curry critique is flawed," said Rade Musulin, an Australia-based actuary and co-author of the new study. "It seems that we have struck a nerve by challenging the notion that global warming is responsible for everything." |
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Searosia
The Rain King
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 483
Location: Mississauga
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2007 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Some of you following this particular story will remember that Arctic Ice reached record lows again this year, which is not that surprising. What IS surprising is that we reached the previous record low in August, with one month of melt left. Current Arctic sea ice extent is now 25% below last year's record. |
Tracking that here. It actually looks like we've begun to affect ocean currents
Abnormal... You're posting from a peice that was also put together in a 10 peice series posted up on Canada.com know as the deniers articles... Go look it up and join in on freedominion if you wish some like thinking. It also contains such gems as 'some places ar getting colder, so global warming must be a scam!'. Your post here is as intilligent as your cartoons.
| Quote: | | There's just no climate signal that shows up in the economic data. |
Funny quote, only the denial crowd is interested in economic figures for hurricane formation and strength... Which is where their interests are. I wonder what this would look like if we changed the discussion to loss of life? Economic loss is an incredibly silly peice to measure in hurricane intensities.
Landsea himself:
| Quote: | | Landsea said he believes that global warming causes fewer hurricanes because it increases vertical wind shear, which tears apart the storms. The cyclones that do form see a slight increase in intensity, he said, but the difference is so small that humans couldn't measure it. |
These winds are more dependant on elnino / elnina cycles. A noticable increase in vertical windshear values is not established, right now the carribean is seeing some of the lowest winshear values in the past several years.
Wind shear reduces the appearance and severity of hurricanes, which would reduce the number of hurricanes, not increase it. Heh, it's actually kinda funny the arguement Landsea is posting here... He's not denying global warming, he's saying that one of the global warming induced changes should cause an effect on hurricanes will produce fewer storms. So the decreased 2006 hurricane cycle is obvious global warming evidence according to Landsea.
If you want to get into respectable climate scientists, who readily admit that we are working with a very short time frame of data (1966 being our cutoff point), read the hurricane thread:
| Quote: | Category 5 records
Since reliable record keeping began in 1944, there have been 27 Category 5 hurricanes. It is possible that a few Cat 4's that should have been Cat 5's were missed, but I'm guessing this number is at most 10% of the total--two or three. Only ten hurricanes have made landfall at Category 5 strength. Two of those landfalls have occurred this year--the only year that has happened. Thus, the fact we've had 20% of all Category 5 landfalls on record in the same year is truly exceptional. The fact that they both occurred in the Western Caribbean back to back is not that surprising, since the Western Caribbean has the very high heat content waters one needs to fuel Category 5 hurricanes, and the landfalls occurred during the peak part of hurricane season.
...
This year is the fourth year multiple Cat 5's have occurred--see Wikipedia's Category 5 list to see the details. We've now had six Cat 5's in the past three years, and eight in the past five years. Is this an indication climate change is at work? Well, we did have back-to-back years with two Cat 5's each (1960 and 1961), so one can still argue that the Cat 5 activity of recent years is a statistical abnormality. In addition, recent work done studying sediment deposits indicates that intense hurricanes have gone through cycles lasting hundreds or even thousands of years long. Periods of high Category 5 activity similar to that observed the past five years could well have occurred in the distant past. Still some very good hurricane scientists have begun presenting evidence that climate change may be increasing both the frequency and intensity of hurricanes in the Atlantic. It is possible that climate change may be partially responsible for the recent spate of Cat 5's and rapidly intensifying storms. Climate change is significantly affecting weather patterns worldwide, and must be influencing hurricanes. Unfortunately, we don't have a long enough or high enough quality data record of Atlantic hurricanes to accurately judge how much of an impact this might be. Furthermore, it's not clear why the Atlantic Ocean would be the most strongly affected--we see little evidence that climate change is creating stronger hurricanes in the other ocean basins. But, the events of 2005 and again this year leave me concerned. Eight Cat 5's in five years is an awful lot of severe storms in such a short period. Climate change may be indeed be changing Atlantic hurricanes for the worse. |
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transplant
Starting Over Again
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1707
Location: somewhere between here and there
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| Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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REMINDER
TONIGHT, Wednesday, September 26, 7:15 PM, Toronto
St. Paul's Riding Candidates Meeting
Focused on Climate Change and Energy Policy
Do you know what your candidates will do to curb climate change, promote energy conservation, and plan our future energy supply? Here's your chance to find out.
Holy Rosary Parish Hall
356 St. Clair Ave West
(immediately east of St. Clair West subway station)
Participating Candidates:
Green: Steve D'Sa
Lib: Michael Bryant
NDP: Julian Heller
PC: Lillyann Goldstein
Hosted by Green Neighbours 21
[Sorry for the double post, but different people follow different subject threads and this meeting is about climate change policy.] |
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transplant
Starting Over Again
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1707
Location: somewhere between here and there
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| Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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convenient solutions for an inconvenient truth
[Not really, just trying to get people headed in the right direction.]
Come see a live presentation of An Inconvenient Truth and join with your neighbours for a panel discussion on how we can all be part of the climate change solution as individuals and as a community.
You will leave with your own personal action plan and information about the resources that are available to help you get started.
Moderator: Bob McDonald, host of CBC Radio’s Quirks & Quarks
AIT Presenter: Suzanne Senay, a member of Al Gore’s Climate Project
Panelists: Chris Winter, Conservation Council of Ontario
Franz Hartmann, Toronto Environmental Alliance
Greg Labbé, Greensaver
one other panelist to be determined
Thursday, November 8th
6:45 – 9:00 pm
Oakwood Collegiate Institute
991 St. Clair Avenue West
Southwest corner of Oakwood & St. Clair
Enter from Oakwood
Hosted by
Oakwood Collegiate
and
Green neighbours 21
www.gn21.ca |
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transplant
Starting Over Again
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1707
Location: somewhere between here and there
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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Carbon sinks' lose ability to soak up emissions
Independent - A dramatic decline in the ability of the Earth to soak up man-made emissions of carbon dioxide, and a corresponding acceleration in the rate of increase of greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, have been detected for the first time by scientists.
The discovery that more carbon dioxide from human activities is lingering in the air rather being absorbed by the world's forests and oceans has alarmed scientists who believe that it signals a potentially dangerous turn of events for the global climate.
They fear that a much-anticipated "feedback" in the global climate – when increases in carbon dioxide in the air trigger further increases in atmospheric concentrations of the gas – has already begun to occur decades before many predicted.
"We always said that these feedbacks would happen in the future, but what this study shows is that these feedbacks are happening right now," said Josep Canadell, executive director of the Global Climate Project in Canberra, and the lead author of the study.
About half of the carbon dioxide emissions resulting from human activities are absorbed by natural "sinks" on land and the oceans but the new study shows that the efficiency of these sinks has fallen significantly over the past half century.
"What we are seeing is a decrease in the planet's ability to absorb carbon emissions due to human activity. Fifty years ago, for every tonne of CO2 emitted, 600kg were removed by natural sinks. In 2006, only 550kg were removed per tonne and that amount is falling," Dr Canadell said. ... |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 4123
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:17 am Post subject: |
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Norway aims to be carbon-neutral by 2050:
| Quote: | Norway plans to be the first country in the world to become "carbon neutral" and cut its net greenhouse gas emissions to zero by 2050. The prime minister, Jens Stoltenberg, has proposed the move, expected to encourage other rich countries to act further and faster on climate change.
In a speech to the Labour party, Mr Stoltenberg said the greenhouse effect was the world's most dangerous environmental problem and that Norway had a responsibility to act urgently.
"By 2050 greenhouse gas emissions will have to be reduced drastically. Rich countries should become carbon neutral. This does not mean no emissions from the countries in question. But it does mean that each tonne of greenhouse gases emitted is to be offset by an equivalent reduction elsewhere. This adds up to zero emissions," he said. |
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This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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transplant
Starting Over Again
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1707
Location: somewhere between here and there
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| Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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Is the ocean carbon sink sinking?
RealClimate - The past few weeks and years have seen a bushel of papers finding that the natural world, in particular perhaps the ocean, is getting fed up with absorbing our CO2. There are uncertainties and caveats associated with each study, but taken as a whole, they provide convincing evidence that the hypothesized carbon cycle positive feedback has begun.
Of the new carbon released to the atmosphere from fossil fuel combustion and deforestation, some remains in the atmosphere, while some is taken up into the land biosphere (in places other than those which are being cut) and into the ocean. The natural uptake has been taking up more than half of the carbon emission. If changing climate were to cause the natural world to slow down its carbon uptake, or even begin to release carbon, that would exacerbate the climate forcing from fossil fuels: a positive feedback.
The ocean has a tendency to take up more carbon as the CO2 concentration in the air rises, because of Henry's Law, which states that in equilibrium, more in the air means more dissolved in the water. Stratification of the waters in the ocean, due to warming at the surface for example, tends to oppose CO2 invasion, by slowing the rate of replenishing surface waters by deep waters which haven't taken up fossil fuel CO2 yet.
The Southern Ocean is an important avenue of carbon invasion into the ocean, because the deep ocean outcrops here. Le Quere et al. [2007] diagnosed the uptake of CO2 into the Southern Ocean using atmospheric CO2 concentration data from a dozen or so sites in the Southern hemisphere. They find that the Southern Ocean has begun to release carbon since about 1990, in contrast to the model predictions that Southern Ocean carbon uptake should be increasing because of the Henry's Law thing. ...
Canadell et al is available online here:
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/0702737104v1
Schuster and Watson (in proof) here:
http://lgmacweb.env.uea.ac.uk/ajw/Reprints/Schuster_Watson_JGR_in_p...
Le Quere et al here:
http://lgmacweb.env.uea.ac.uk/lequere/publi/Le_Quere_et_al_Science_... |
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Hondo
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 126
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Nelson Skalbania, for Christ's sake, is now selling carbon trading emissions. Get this, his wife's Vancouver hotel is vouching for these trading emissions. |
At least Skalbainia isn't fueling the fear on a world wide scale to make a profit, unlike Gore who makes millions promoting the man made global warming propoganda.
http://www.generationim.com/about/team.html
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Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy." Winston Churchill
"The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is." Winston Churchill[/size] |
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anne cameron
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 2626
Location: tahsis, british columbia
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Skalbania would if he could find a publisher dumb enough to believe more than two people would buy his book.
This guy has fleeced swarms of people, declared bankruptcy how many times, ought to be in jail and is now trading carbon points?
None of which means I disagree with the suggestion Al Gore is getting rich on other peoples' work and commitment, and is a total opportunist. |
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transplant
Starting Over Again
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 1707
Location: somewhere between here and there
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| Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Hondo wrote: | | ...the man made global warming propoganda. |
And this "propoganda" would be? |
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Hondo
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 126
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:56 am Post subject: |
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Neither Skalbania or Gore have any scruples or ethics. I was just pointing out that particular point.
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Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy." Winston Churchill
"The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is." Winston Churchill[/size] |
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Searosia
The Rain King
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 483
Location: Mississauga
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Ethics are always debatable and to each their own... But I want to see Hondo back up this lovely blurb:
| Quote: | | ...the man made global warming propoganda. |
Tell me Hondo, are you dillusional enough to believe 'man made global warming' is propaganda? Or is your comment just a poorly written attack on Gore (and others) profiting from their global warming positions?
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Now is not the time for you Liberal fools, its time for a witch hunt. - Bloc Party |
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No Yards
Glutton for Punishment
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 2944
Location: Toronto Ontario
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Global warming must be real ... NBC shut down all it's studio and production lights during last nights football game (they did half time by candle light.) They claimed just shutting down those lights saved enough energy to power 200 (or was it 2000?) homes for a month.
They also did interviews with two of their reporters, one in Greenland, and the other in the Antarctic about the effects of Global Warming on those parts of the world.
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I follow, but more importantly, respect the Golden Rule. I fully and completely respect your right to be 'done on to' as you would 'do on to' others. |
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JPG
Pro-choice freedom-monger
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 2569
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't watch the game but it must have been nice not to have to look a John Madden. To save more power they should have cut off his mic.
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We are the youth, we'll take your fascism away... |
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No Yards
Glutton for Punishment
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 2944
Location: Toronto Ontario
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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Actually it was the NBC game with Bob Costas and that crew ... Madden was on for the fully lighted Dallas/Phillie game.
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I follow, but more importantly, respect the Golden Rule. I fully and completely respect your right to be 'done on to' as you would 'do on to' others. |
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