EnMasse

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 7180

TTC to stop selling tokens on Monday

Gee, what a giant shock that Toronto's public transit riders would rather buy tokens at current prices than at the soon-to-be jacked up prices!

Answer: stop selling tokens. What a super solution! That would be win-win, if only the public won in any conceivable way!

As much as I'm basically onboard with the importance of public transit (and of course as a non-driver, I'm also a user of public transit) there are times when it seems to me that the TTC is just so incredibly backward that I kind of hope they could fail. Some days I think it speaks directly to the stereotypical low self esteem of Canadians that we keep accepting the TTC's craptastic service, even as we allow the TTC to call itself "the better way".

Sure. Better than walking in the rain. Better than crawling on your hands and knees. Better than never being able to leave your home. But not better than driving.
_________________
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,

TS. · Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:37 pm Post subject:

What is actually needed is for governments to step up with stable operational funding for the TTC. Governments love to make flashy capital funding announcements, but they are never around to provide the continuing funding to operate what has been built with the capital funding.
_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 7180

I would imagine that's contentious outside of the GTA.

"Everybody pony up some tax money so those fancy Torontonians can ride in style!"

Not that I'm disagreeing.

Meanwhile, last summer the TTC announced their ambitious new "Transit City" which sure sounds to me like it would cost a lot of money. Now don't get me wrong: I think it's extremely important that 905'ers should be able to quickly and easily get to their high paying city jobs in the morning, then quickly and easily back out to their 5,000 square foot homes on their 2 acre corner lots, but maybe if money's that tight, we could keep it a Toronto thing until cashflow changes?
_________________
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,

F. · Fulltime enMasse Member Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 2211

TS. · Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:12 pm Post subject:

One thing I think the TTC desperately needs is zone fares. Thus if I get on a streetcar at Dundas and College and want to ride it to Dundas and Bay, I pay less than if I want to get on a bus at Steels and Bathurst, ride it to Bathurst and Bloor and then catch a subway to Bloor and Yonge. Really, it makes sense that the further you want to go, the more you should pay. It would still be substantially cheaper for people coming in from Richmond Hill or whatever to take the TTC than to drive the car, but it would make it cheaper for people travelling within the city and would provide funding for operating expenses as well as self-funding expansion.
_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

swirrlygrrl · Fulltime enMasse Member Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 321

Having never lived someplace with zones, I see your point TS, but I've always found the idea a bit...unfair in its fairness? Living outside the urban core usually means more hassle to get someplace on public transit (no rapid transit, less frequent bus service, farther between stops, etc.) So, it feels like penalizing people who already face the longer and more annoying commutes as it is - particularly as downtown real estate becomes more and more expensive, meaning living centrally isn't an option for many (we do, but we're government-employed DINKs Very Happy

- our house probably cost $75-100K more than an equivalent house in the 'burbs, assuming you could even find something this small that wasn't a townhouse.)

Now, one could argue that this differential source of revenue could be used to improve service for those paying the higher fares - is this how it has worked in places like Vancouver? I guess I also don't have a good understanding of what a "zone" would look like - are we really talking about outside the limits of a municipality? Can you go a few stops but cross a "zone" and thus have to pony up the extra money?

Here in Ottawa, we don't have zones, but there are "Express" buses that get you to the suburbs faster, and cost a premium. They usually only run at rush hours, and I'm not sure how much they save in terms of time. When they go by, they often look like sardine tins, meaning I'm not sure people are getting much in terms of comfort for their extra dollars.

I was a big fan of transit in Toronto when I worked there (commuting from the 905, I'll add). But, then again, how could the system not seem better than Edmonton transit, with our LRT that goes no where!

ronb · Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:46 am Post subject:

Gee, what happens I wonder if you make a high school dropout Education Minister and a used car salesman Transportation Minister - oh wait, I already know. We're still living with the disastrous consequences of the shit government that the 905 foisted on Toronto - enjoy your gridlock into work, assholes, you voted for it. Somehow, not a single MSM article that I've seen makes the obvious freaking connection. ANOTHER fare hike? Thanks Mike, you backward fuckwad. You too Ernie. Rot in hell, both of you.

TS. · Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:14 am Post subject:

Swirrly, if you want an idea of how a zone system works, you could check out the London transit system.

In my mind, the unfairness arises when people who are using less of a service are asked to pay the same as someone using more. A person commuting in from Richmond Hill is consuming substantially more of the resources of the TTC than a person going from Swansea to downtown. I don't see any unfairness, particularly as the suburbs around Toronto are substantially more affluent than many of the downtown areas of Toronto. Rising transit costs make it unaffordable for low-income downtown families to get kids to school or to get to work.

The TTC also shouldn't be the network doing the job of bringing in commuters. That should be the job of GO Transit and the provincial government. The job of the TTC should be to move people around once they are in Toronto.
_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 7180

TTC ponders ad from affair site

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 7180

Perhaps our recent fare increase could be used to purchase cots for employees who are currently forced to sleep sitting up.

This is nice, isn't it? Doesn't he look so peaceful?
_________________
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,

Cartman · Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:27 pm Post subject:

Should he get the same punishment as do cops who beat the living shit out of people? Put him on administrative duties!!!

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 7180

Hahahahahahahahaha!

He won't be punished, Cartman. Someone will issue a statement that he was the tragic victim of mixing a cold pill with a Red Bull or some other similar Bull, and if his luck is really terrible, he might have to meet with his supervisor and a union representative to talk about how he really needs a few days off with pay to get his health back.

But apparently this picture is going viral, seeing as how we all had to bite the bullet and pay more for tokens and passes. And this is how they spend it: overpaying a goldbricker. Unsurprisingly, those of us who are forbidden from sleeping on the job are a bit less than impressed.

In any normal work environment, he'd be looking for a new job.
_________________
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,

Tehanu · Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:48 pm Post subject:

Yeah, if "going viral" means being the top story on the Toronto Star. Fabulous. He must feel just wonderful today. And all his family, friends, acquaintances, co-workers, supervisor, everyone, they must be just filled with appreciation for him ... yeah, I think that taking a nap in your ticket booth really warrants that kind of consequence.

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 7180

Cartman · Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:10 pm Post subject:

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 7180

"Going viral" typically means being spread from person to person via e-mail, Twitter, blogs, etc.

Typically well-covered stories that are already public knowledge, eg: the prorogueing of Parliament, generally don't need to be distributed this way.

Meanwhile, the Union weighs in:

Dimitrios Makropoulos · Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:53 pm Post subject:

No, no. It could have been a medical condition.

Narcolepsy springs to mind. Eh?

_________________
Dimitrios Makropoulos

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 7180

My grandmother was narcoleptic. You just fall asleep, right into your soup if that's the case. You don't get a moment to stretch out, fold your hands across your chest and prepare.

My guess: they'll claim some kind of drug interaction or similar.
_________________
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,

Cartman · Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:24 pm Post subject:

I think he was meditating and doing yoga to ensure that he provided better service to customers.

Seriously though, do you think he should be fired Magoo? Reprimanded, lectured, edumacated about sleep deprivation? More importantly, should the TTC even bother talk to him or just punish him and ask questions later?

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 7180

I would expect TTC management to talk to him, absolutely. He just gave Adam Giambrone all kinds of 'splainin to do, seeing as we all just got tapped for even more money. For this? To pay a guy to sleep?

I would also expect his union to talk to him as well. He gave them a bit of a black eye too. How can the union tell management that they're overworked, when one of their members is photographed sleeping on the job? Giambrone, if he's smart, will have that photo blown up, framed, and mounted in whatever board room they use for contract negotiations.

Real outcome: an apology from Giambrone, an apology from the employee, and maybe 2 weeks unpaid vacation, so he can catch up on his sleep. I think all of that is realistic.

If an unliked city councillor (say, Rob Ford) was photographed sleeping when he was supposed to be representing his ward at a Council meeting, what would we expect of him? Something like that actually happened in the States, where a few local politicians were photographed from behind during an important budget meeting, and you could see that they were playing solitaire on their laptops. All hell broke loose for them, as it should. And next election, they may very well lose their jobs over it.
_________________
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,

TS. · Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:14 pm Post subject:

Actually, the TTC is asking for more money to fund capital expansion costs, not just labour costs. As I recall, the Union has only been asking for wage increases in line with the average rate of inflation.

As a serious question, why are unions your personal hobby horse? Are you so threatened by workers exercising their collective bargaining rights?
_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 7180

Cartman · Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:55 pm Post subject:

I have some sympathy for your views Magoo. Having said that, I would never work at a mine today that did not have a union. I have seen too much to ever do that. It would be ideal if we did not need unions and labour laws actually protected workers, but that is not the case. So, we are left with the present situation with unions possibly being stuck in the 1920s and many employers being stuck in the 1840s. Hell, the governing federal party is stuck in the 1700s. Razz

TS. · Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:31 am Post subject:

Magoo, I can understand why you feel the way you do, but I strongly disagree. If you need examples of employers fighting hard and dirty in Canada, take a look at the case of Royal Oak Mines. Every year employers make a deal with a union bargaining in good faith, and then they turn around and close the plant or move it to Mexico. Every year employers try to cut corners on safety, leading to the deaths of workers. Every year, will try to make hiring and firing decisions on arbitrary and bad faith bases. Every year, employers force employees to work uncompensated overtime. Just because in many workplaces employers aren't doing these things any more isn't an indication that employees don't need unions any more. It is simply an indication that unions have done their jobs well, and that workers are effectively using their collective bargaining power to exercise some measure of control over their work places.
_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

elmateo · Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:05 pm Post subject:

We've become an immature society - everyone is a customer from the moment they step out of their house and their relationships are with employees so they expect service. It is one reason why we do not collectively fund the TTC like we do the highways. Because those who take transit continually face workers on the TTC and therefore treat it as a paid-service.

And our solution to the complaint about raising fares is to spread around a picture of a sleeping old man. The guy is not a human being, he is an employee, and thus you have no reason to tap on the glass and wake him up but instead to be utterly offended by the lack of 'service' provided.

I cannot help but think a mature society would have tapped on the glass, said "don't sleep on the job" and we'd have moved along in our day. We do not have human relations, we have customer-to-employee relations.

This became 'viral' because of a bigger problem with transit. We are incapable of actually dealing with the real problem, transit's underfunding (itself a problem of chronic underfunding in our cities and public services), and instead have a fizzling-backlash over a sleeping worker - a pretty immature faculty I think. Time to grow up.

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 7180

It's catching.

His symptoms appear the same as the other victim's! Call Bob Kinnear!
_________________
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,

voice of the damned · Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:52 pm Post subject:

Magoo, would you happen to know where that second photo was originally published? I'm just curious.

A_J · Fulltime enMasse Member Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 337

I saw it on the front page of the Star this morning along with a third photo. Apparently it's from King Station, 12 January.

The front page also had a fun exercise - try to guess what positions James, Fiorito and Hume take.

Dimitrios Makropoulos · Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:53 pm Post subject:

I haven’t visited Toronto in years, but I thought the game plan was to keep raising parking rates until only the occasional well-heeled visitor could afford to run a vehicle in Toronto. Meanwhile, increase T. T. C. services, while maintaining low token prices, until the city is cleared of private vehicles.

Whot hoppened? Eh?

_________________
Dimitrios Makropoulos

voice of the damned · Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:28 pm Post subject:

DSquared · Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:19 pm Post subject:

Cartman · Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:42 am Post subject:

Magoo posting about slackassed TTC employees on Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:52 pm...from work?

bshmr · Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:52 pm...from work?

Cartman · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:02 am Post subject:

elmateo · Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:02 am Post subject:

But no 'public' pays those employees... right right? Which makes it even more upsetting that a public employee would get self righteous and form a union. Public employees are responsible only to the amorphous self-righteous tax payer that represents everyone unlike the private sector counterparts who are kept in line by the market (peace be upon it).

F. · Fulltime enMasse Member Joined: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 2211

A_J · Fulltime enMasse Member Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 337

Perhaps someone else in Toronto can confirm, but is there some kind of collector's protest today?

The collector at my station has the little window blocked off (and doesn't appear to be selling fares) and has posted a sign referring to how collectors sold some $400 million in tokens and fares last year. Has anyone else has seen something similar?

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 7180

Was it between 3 and 3:30? That's nap time.

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 7180

I stand corrected. A new video taken by a rider suggests that 3 a.m. is actually coffee break time.
_________________
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,

TS. · Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:26 pm Post subject:

This is one thing I find very annoying. I could understand it if it was a very quick in-and-out to go to the bathroom or something, but the going to get a coffee thing I have found very aggravating. Though I will say that I don't understand or know anything about the structure for breaks for TTC operators.
_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 7180

They're permitted to stop for washroom breaks, not for other breaks. Certainly not while people sit and wait in the streetcar.

I, personally, find it horrifying that no passenger thought to tap on the window of the coffee shop to make sure the driver wasn't having a medical emergency.
_________________
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,

sam · Fulltime enMasse Member Joined: 21 Jun 2006 Posts: 386

Sifo-Dyas · Fulltime enMasse Member Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 390

The TTC union needs to appeal more to ordinary people.

I would never begrudge a human being a coffee break or a washroom break. The TTC union needs to let people know what breaks TTC employees are entitled to.

A break is not a sign of laziness or disrespect. It's just something that human beings need in order to stay efficient on the job.

The TTC union needs to show citizens that TTC employees do care about serving the public. If public servants can't do that, then something is really wrong.

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 7180

Union considers job action.

Brilliant optics. Absolutely brilliant.

If we don't stop picking on employees who nap on the job, service will go downhill.

Brilliant.
_________________
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,

voice of the damned · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:10 pm Post subject:

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 7180

If I go to a restaurant and the service and food are terrible, and the table next to me is too loud, it's the restaurant I'm concerned with. It's them I'm paying. The table next to me might be loud morons, but they don't owe me a good meal and decent service.

How some subway rider putting his feet up is supposed to counter the recent exposés of employee slacking is a mystery to me. It's just a poor attempt at distraction, I think.
_________________
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 7180

Update: Work-to-rule just a rumour

But who keeps letting Bob Kinnear near the microphone? Sounds like he's figured out what the real problem is here, and evidently it's not employees shirking their duties. No, it's much worse than that:

thwap · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:32 pm Post subject:

1. $50,000 - $60,000 is a decent, middle-class wage. Good on 'em.

2. If the dude was exhausted (for whatever reason) and fell asleep, he has my sympathy. If the dude said, "Screw it, I'm taking a nap" and got comfortable, put his feet up, made sure he wouldn't fall over, then it's inexcusable.

3. The guy having a prohibited coffee-break might have been working longer because a replacement didn't show up and was taking it out on everybody else. Or he's just being a prick.

4. The TTC must be a really dysfunctional workplace to encourage such behaviour.

5. What ronb said about the stupid fucks who voted again and again for harris n' eves. Enjoy your gridlock.
_________________
I thought she was going to marry that snooty rich guy!

voice of the damned · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:48 pm Post subject:

TS. · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:23 pm Post subject:

I am baffled by the monumentally bad PR job the ATU has done on this one. I can, to an extent, understand the union's behaviour because unions these days are scared to death of duty of fair representation claims, but seriously, the ATU needs to get its act in order.
_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson