EnMasse

RP.

Green Party Of Canada Threatens BUCKDOG BLOG With Lawsuit In Attempt To Suppress Freedom Of Speech!

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 8700

Oh my.

A blogger posts a link to a YouTube video, and receives a SLAPP threat.

Shall we tell him that this site has a link to the very same YouTube video? Maybe if the Green party starts getting all up on its hind legs with EM, a few Green-bots might realize what a dishonest master they serve.
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Cartman · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject:

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 8700

Funny thing is, the video itself is nothing more than some audio of an interview and a few still images. Nobody's making any claims that could be construed as libelous.

Mind you, their legal eagle, Mr. Shirty, called it "slander" (pssst! The word you wanted was "libel"!)
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Tehanu · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject:

Also being discussed here.

I don't get it. Are they saying that she didn't say this? If she went on to clarify her comments (I still don't know what the context was) then I could see them wanting the complete quote included.

Norse of 60 · Kokanee Kid Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 3711

Throwing gas on a small fire only makes it bigger and she is only attracting more negative attention. I still don't know exactly what their platform stands for but if recent media coverage is any indication they stand for:

*shilling for the liberals
*whining
*censorship

ETA: the Greens should have kept shavvy around to make May look relatively sane in comparison.

Tehanu · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:58 pm Post subject:

Update on the blogger's correspondence with John Bennett from the Green Party. He's threatening a national press release, and he's also apparently contacted his own lawyer.

Popcorn

Tehanu · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:05 pm Post subject:

Okay, the full quote is from a TVO "The Agenda" broadcast in February 2007. Available here.

I'll try and dig out the context.

ETA: Well, I'm listening to the post-show discussion and about two-thirds in Elizabeth May just said (obviously joking):

EMay: "How about the people who buy Hummers?"

Steve Paikin (?): "You want to put them in jail, right, Elizabeth?"

EMay: "No, I want them shot! Jail isn't good enough for them. I'm a politician who'll never get elected, what can I tell you."

Wow.

She goes on to clarify that she doesn't want them in jail, just to pay a premium at the time they buy the vehicle.

Cartman · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject:

Welcome to federal politics eBay. Welcome

Norse of 60 · Kokanee Kid Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 3711

Tehanu · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:03 pm Post subject:

Okay, here we go. It was in the MP3 soundfile of the broadcast, not the post-show video discussion. This was with a panel of six or so people (May is the only woman) from across the political spectrum.

To preface, I will say that she does sound articulate and makes some good points. She does know her stuff on the environment, even if I don't agree with everything she says. It's actually an interesting discussion about the environment, the economy and whether economic development should be measured by the GDP.

I was interested to hear that she thinks there needs to be a carbon tax system AND cap-and-trade (along with other initiatives).

Here's what I was able to get from the audio (at about 38:30 minutes in).

Norse of 60 · Kokanee Kid Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 3711

I wonder if/when the MSM will pick up on this little gem.

Cartman · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:47 pm Post subject:

Tehanu · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:52 am Post subject:

I suspect that this might have been an overzealous "Communications Director" who is perhaps even now getting his ear chewed off, because I doubt very much that EMay wants this to hit the MSM. Especially since the clip is a year and a half old. Sometimes ignoring things is the way to go.

I am no lawyer but I really don't think there's anything that could be litigated here.

I just did a quick Google News and it has hit the National Post blogs:

transplant · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:28 am Post subject:

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 8700

The interesting part of this isn't the comment itself. I wouldn't say it matters all that much whether she said "I" (which is what I heard) or "they" (which is what the Green-bots will insist she said).

What's interesting is the laughably heavy-handed, chest-beating threats by a man who doesn't seem to know the difference between libel and slander, and who seems to think he's the bad guy from the season finale of "24" ("you have exactly one hour...").

Strange silence from the supporters, though.
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transplant · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:17 am Post subject:

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 8700

Hehe. If you're not a cheerleader for May or the Greens then I wasn't really talking to you. If you think she probably just misspoke (as we all do from time to time) then I agree right back.

But their tough-guy damage control action plan was to die for. "Get get it down now."

LOL! Sir yes Sir!
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JQuestio · Member Joined: 09 Dec 2007 Posts: 24

I agree it's wrong to try to silence people with threats. Even if someone twisted what was said into something much worse than how it was intended so what? Politicians present the facts out of context and twist stuff all the time.

I hope this is just one inexperienced Green Party member who had a serious lapse of judgment, because generally speaking I agree with the Green Parties environmental concerns and when they do stuff like this it will be used to undermine the credibility of everything the Greens stand for.

Reading through this discussion here and on other message boards and trying to make sense of what was said, I am wondering if E May might have said “I don't think Canadians are stupid“

I can't watch the video, but here is what I have put together from what other people have said about the context of these statements.

Cartman · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:12 am Post subject:

Let the CHP in the debates! Given that the evil consortium has thrown out the rules for entering the debate (i.e. the Greens not having 5% of the vote or candidates in every riding), why exclude the CHP? To exclude them would be an arbitrary use of power by the backroom men and woman. I expect to see the Greens continue the fight for fairness.

http://www.chp.ca/en/news/speak_09-11-2008.html

Guest · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:27 pm Post subject:

Hephaestion · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject:

WTF??? Can "guests" post now? OR is "Guest" a new user-name? If so, why is it shown as "Anonymous" on the TAT page?
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Mr. McWho · Guest

Okay, this is kind of weird.

Can anybody see me?? Smile

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 8700

I wasn't logged in.

But Heph's guess seems correct.
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Hephaestion · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject:

Well, *now* it says Mr McWho...
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"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 8700

There was a box for me to enter a username that I didn't notice the first time around (because I hadn't realized I was posting without being logged in).

I probably could have entered pretty much any name that wasn't already taken. Log out and try it!
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Guest · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:41 pm Post subject:

Interesting.

Cartman · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:41 pm Post subject:

The one right above was me.

Tehanü · Guest

Identity theft. All the cool kids are doing it.

RP. · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject:

Anonymous, you haven't come to blow up our yellow van have you?

Tehanu-lite · Guest

Bizarre. I have alerted Steve-GTG and am taking a look at the back-end settings ...

Tehanu · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject:

Ah. It's only this forum and when I set it up last night I didn't realize one needed to change "Public" to "Registered" in the forum settings. Should be okay now.

Hee. Maybe we'll periodically make certain forums "Public" and see how long it takes for them to get ... er ... creative additions.

RP. · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject:

Anyone want to drop John Bennet a line?

aajb@rogers.com

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 8700

TVO weighs in. No planned lawsuit, no editing or doctoring of the recording.

Seems Mr. Bennett might have been showing off a bit and talking tough — and lying — when he threatened the original creator of the video with legal action from TVO.

Also seems he was maybe making it up a little when he insisted — by lying — that the audio track had been doctored.

Will Mr. Bennett now do the honourable thing, and fall on his sword? Or will he sputter and bluster and insist — while lying — that TVO has its facts wrong?

And I remain sad that the loud and proud Green supporters, who had plenty to say about free speech last week, can't be here to enjoy their party's introduction into the big leagues. I trust that the Green-bots who can't seem to find the courage to address this are outside, right now, painting their house orange.
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transplant · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject:

Well, I just watched the video of the Agenda episode and in it is abundantly clear that the assessment May was agreeing with was made by one of the previous panelists because she turns to them and gestures to one of them as she says it. But I can't tell for sure if it was Robert Costanza's "invisible foot" comment, David Robertson's comment on the opportunity of Kyoto, or Andrew Coyne's on using the market as a social institution to change behavior because the camera angle is too tight to see who she gestured to. In any case, May very clearly did not say or mean or agree that she thinks Canadians are stupid.

There are many things to rightly ridicule and hold May and her party accountable for, including Bennett's response and May's deals with Dion, but this is not one of them.

I have zero tolerance for putting words into peoples' mouths and smearing them for things that they did not say or mean. A lot of people should be ashamed of themselves over this, but I doubt many will be.

Tehanu · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject:

Transplant, as you'll see above I've been willing to give Elizabeth May the benefit of the doubt around that comment, and put a fair bit of effort into finding the context of it. What I find highly problematic is her communications director threatening a blogger with a lawsuit for linking to a YouTube video.

transplant · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject:

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 8700

CWW · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject:

I'm going to side with Magoo on this one... this smacks of that scumbag Micheal Savages' attempt to get Media Matters for America to sever links on their site to video of him making some disgustingly racist remarks on his program.

Fair use, my friends.

transplant · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:02 pm Post subject:

Cartman · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:38 pm Post subject:

RP. · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:08 pm Post subject:

OK, so here is a slowed down version of what she's said. To me, it's clear as can be that she says "I" and not "they." I don't think that is what others hear, but what it clarifies for me is that I'm doing well to take out my salt shaker when anyone who asserts that anything is "clear" or "obvious".

(sick of this yet? but I post this in spite of myself) Eh?

5 minutes to midnight · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:52 pm Post subject:

This is year-old news. IMO, the clip was taken out of context, and in any case the whole thing was hashed over on rabble.ca over a year ago.

But, some meta-discussion, if you don't mind.

(trying to put together words)

Everyone here knows I support the Greens, but I don't come leaping into this forum trying to pass them off as the greatest thing since sliced bread every week. I contribute to other threads, I make my own amatuer political analysis from time to time, I try to contribute. So I find it straight up insulting, being called a "green-bot".

Yes, there are ridiculous partisans in the party who do think the Greens are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Yes, some post here, but you can find people like that everywhere, in every party.

Why am I bringing this up here? Because this is currently the 2nd longest thread on the site. This story has barely cracked the mainstream media (indeed, to my estimation, it mostly hasn't). The Ryan Sparrow incident (do you even know what I'm talking about?!), something which in my opinion deserves a little more effort in condemnation, gets no attention at all from posters here.

Its things like this that make accusations that I'm obsessed with defending the Green Party ring a little hollow, since some of you are far more obsessed with attacking it.
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transplant · Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 12:54 am Post subject:

Cartman · Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:29 am Post subject:

Sparrow was suspended for his misdeed. When is Bennett going to be suspended for his lying and bullying tactics? At least the Conservatives are scummy because they can smell power coming their way. The Greens are acting like lying shitbags when they have absolutely no chance of accomplishing anything. That is the only way they are doing politics differently IMO.

The behaviour of the Greens on Thursday September 11th, 2008, was sickening, repulsive and just plain pathetic. It is bad enough that Greens are in denial about her saying "...I think Canadians are stupid...", but then to threaten lawsuits because people might hear what she said is anti-democratic. No wonder people are using the term Greenbot.

It is also stupid to think that you can suppress the audio clip after it hit the "information super highway" (23 ski doo). And the Conservatives are still screaming about this particularly since the Greenbots said that the audio was tampered with in some secret Conservative plot. Rolling Eyes

This is not old news.

Perhaps the most amazing part of this is that Buckdog was able to understand what the fuck this meant:

transplant · Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:33 am Post subject:

I just watched the clip of May from tonight and what was it Emily Latella used to say....

Never mind. Rolling Eyes

Cartman · Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:37 am Post subject:

Doug · Fulltime enMasse Member Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 1042

It's especially funny because the truth can never be slander - and her words are right there on the video for everyone to hear. It's dumb to even threaten to sue someone for that.

Tehanu · Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:18 am Post subject:

Well, 5MTM, you would be the last person I would characterize as a "Green-bot," and in fact the people I would characterize as knee-jerk Green supporters haven't been seen around here of late. I've always found you very thoughtful in your opinions, and just as plenty of us NDP supporters criticize our party, you have as well.

It it through the criticism of their supporters that parties get feedback and can grow and improve.

I think many of us are reacting strongly because we were very unimpressed at yet another attack on Jack Layton from Elizabeth May, when Harper got off quite lightly. It feels as though Layton's her favourite target when she lets others off the hook. It gets tiresome.

Cartman · Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:22 am Post subject:

Just to be clear, I do not think 5MTM is a greenbot and I do think every party has their bots. Even EM has a bot.