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West Coast Tiger Super-Link Mistress
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 3060 Location: Obviously Concealed
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:32 pm Post subject: Courtship, Politics, and Breaking Old Cycles |
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Well, federal election time is likely approaching again. Even Paul Wells has something to say about it. If you think I’m jumping the gun on this, let me remind my fellow Canadians that we are in a volatile minority situation with a wide assortment of somewhat alluring parties. But despite the many choices we have, Canada seems to get its collective head set on only two big vote chasers. Allow me to be more precise:
Canada is an amazing, diversified, and rich nation. It’s a pillar of diplomacy and humanity on the world stage (at least that’s what I like to believe). As a modern First World nation, it’s simply ripe with choice. The choices are simply endless! Canada IS a catch! But when it comes to choosing our political leaders and parties – and to that end, choosing the ever important course and direction of this great, rich, and responsible nation – we are, more or less, always forming a government with two major parties (the Liberals and Conservatives) pulling the strings and sweet talking us into submission. How in the world did that happen? For the record (and just in case you haven’t noticed), I think choosing our partners in life and our political parties are on a par (or at least are an analogy).
So, before we get wrapped up in all that pre-election courting again, let’s briefly recap the main singles:
On the right of the bar, we have our traditional and guarded Conservatives, or as I like to call them, The Cons – because that’s essentially what I think on the rare moments I listen to them speak. They’re an ambitious bunch of right wingers – always leaving me with the question, “Have I stepped inside a time machine and been hooked up on a blind date with the quintessential caveman?” No, the Cons aren’t really doing it for me. The Cons are the ‘party du jour’ at the moment – it’s a fleeting thing, I pray.
On the left of the bar, we have the unyielding New Democrat Party. They are, believe it or not, very available. You’ve probably heard of them, though many Canadians have avoided NDP wooing as if a vote for the NDP would make you instantly ‘un-cool’. And that’s a shame, but more on that in a moment.
In addition to these two (what I would call) ‘rival suitors’, Canada is blessed with three other large parties scattered all over the bar:.
One is the ever-popular Liberal Party of Canada – the unofficial ‘cool’ party that leans wholeheartedly left at one instant, and leans unswervingly right in the next moment, and leans left again, and, well… are you following me? Thus the popularity, I assume. The Liberal Party is the ultimate chameleonic cavalier. However, the Liberals are in a bit of a slump and nursing a broken heart and leader at the moment. This Liberal party just isn’t doing it for me either, to be totally honest. It just isn’t clear enough in its goals and lately the party leaves me with that feeling of: “Did someone just bamboozle my booty?” I think you can relate.
Next, we have The Green Party – a party of… well I’m still trying to figure them out, but they are there and they are, apparently, green. They tend to show up lightly on the radar screen during elections. But those Greens are moving up in the world and we must give credit where credit is due. They are enticing and even sprouting in my eyes, but still a little wet behind the ears.
And finally, we have the Bloc Québécois, a party that seems to be mainly concerned with Quebec more so than any other.part of the nation, but still manages to be a major player AND shaker on the Canadian political stage. However, the Bloc is somewhat unapproachable and long-distance things never work out for me anyway.
So, there you go: five large parties in Canada all promising us the universe. And what luck! On top of those five, we even have a bunch of smaller parties to choose from. It’s quite a selection. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that we have a considerably assorted potluck of parties to choose from. Granted, I WOULD NOT go so far as to say that we have la crème-de-la-crème of buffets. Still, not too bad, eh?
And yet, with all these choices we have, we still can’t seem to dump the two incorrigibles that I think break our hearts and trust the most. But there are plenty of eligible parties out there…
Take the NDP: Here’s a party that has done fairly well for several elections, as the results from elections from 1962-2006 show on Wikipedia . However, this particular party never seems to really obtain our affections. I honestly can’t understand how that happens considering that the NDP is aligned with many Canadians on many issues. At least that’s what I keep hearing. But perhaps the NDP IS more tightly aligned with most Canadians than we care to accept or acknowledge – the near-perfect match. Thus, the NDP is like that prospective partner who looks good on paper, wants desperately to prove his or her faithfulness and attentiveness, has virtually everything in common with us, but never gets a date. In essence, the NDP loves Canada, but many Canadians don’t love the NDP back. The NDP is simply the rejected fellow – the “nice guy” you shun because he’s the nice guy! But why do we continuously reject a party such as the NDP? Are we really so repulsed by or afraid of it? I’d have to say yes. As proof, I will offer up the following:
A quick search on Wikipedia can easily show the results of our elections dating back to 1867. Our list of elected leaders and parties reads like a dance card between the Cons and the Liberals. (Okay… the NDP haven’t been in the social scene for many of those years, but…) We might as well be stateside with results like that! We barely even mingle with the other eligible parties – nice or not. Are we suffering from some sort of ‘political love-hate relationship’, unable to break free from the same old good-for-nothings, and unwilling to flirt with something new? That’s not a healthy cycle, Canada.
I understand, though. With all the choices we have in the world today, sometimes we just get our hearts and heads stuck on one familiar thing. “Better the devil you know, than the devil you don’t know”, right? But like any cycle, it’s not going to change unless we make it change. And, in my opinion, constantly electing the same two parties into power is not really utilizing our power of choice to the fullest. Where’s the competition in this market? No wonder the talent pools and ideas never get any better! So I have to ask: How much do we really know about the perpetually neglected parties? And how much of what we hear and read is fact? Only you can answer question one. But I can take a brief shot at question two:
Since the NDP is roughly the equivalent of the un-cool, unpopular, and repeatedly rejected admirer, I think it might be a good example once again. Perhaps the characterizations and myths are what hold us back from voting NDP. It’s been repeatedly said to me that the NDP is far too fiscally irresponsible. I’ve heard folks say that the NDP would run the country into the ground with excess taxes and too many social services. That’s some truly amazing assumptions considering we’ve never really had a full taste of the NDP on the federal level. How do we even know exactly how they will perform as the top dog? When I visit the NDP's Issues Page, I get a whole different feel for how this party would treat the nation and that feeling contradicts these characterizations I’ve heard. The NDP seems responsible -- and rather family oriented. So, how come we never tune out the negative assumptions and give that party our number? Hell, we do it often enough for the Liberals and Conservatives no matter how many times they let us down!
At any rate, I’m not suggesting that the NDP or any other party holds the answers to our dreams – it’s a dishevelled potluck, remember, not an elegant buffet of choices – but how can they, or any other smaller party be any worse than the scandal-filled, fallen Liberals and the muzzled, old fashioned Cons? And just like finding the best healthy relationship in our personal lives, don’t we also owe it to our country to find the best party to look out for us at home? We still aren't there yet and that's what keeps bothering me.
Personally, I think we really need to re-evaluate our goals as a nation. What are we really looking for in a political party? And can we afford in the long term to ignore the parties we’ve always ignored? There could be something really good out there if we could just stop falling for the same old heartbreakers. And Canada really does need to stop this cycle. We need to start moving together in a direction that’s healthy for all of us. Besides, election time is coming and like it or not, we have to make a decision sooner or later. Perhaps it’s time for us to explore the possibilities now and throw caution and myths to the wind. As my mother always says, “Out with the old, and in with the new!” And as the old proverb goes: “Better late than never.”
_________________ ~ Rational ravings from a relative stranger in a troubled paradise. ~ |
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thwap Fulltime enMasse Member

Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 4564 Location: Hamilton
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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I thought this was a nice way of putting things. I would have been harsher in my characterizations of the cons and libs, but i've been told that i alienate would-be supporters.
But essentially, aside from few loud statements, the cons don't reflect Canadian values and the Libs only pretend to. _________________ Man! I hate them fancy-lads! |
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West Coast Tiger Super-Link Mistress
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 3060 Location: Obviously Concealed
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the help Thwap!
He's such an awesome editor.  _________________ ~ Rational ravings from a relative stranger in a troubled paradise. ~ |
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RP. Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 513 Location: Ft. McMurray
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Just playing along with your analogy, the NDP is like the nerdy, sensitive guy who whines about how chicks are mostly into jerks.
"I'd show them what a great guy I am if only they'd give me a chance!" he dreams.
No. No chance. Not yours.
(No nerd's feelings were hurt in making the above image) |
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Rufus Polson Purple Library Guy
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 3483 Location: SFU and/or the college of Riddlemastery at Caithnard
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| RP. wrote: | Just playing along with your analogy, the NDP is like the nerdy, sensitive guy who whines about how chicks are mostly into jerks.
"I'd show them what a great guy I am if only they'd give me a chance!" he dreams.
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Well, speaking as such a nerdy guy who used to have such problems, things can change.  |
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Corey Non-Threatening Boy

Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1972
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| RP. wrote: | the nerdy, sensitive guy who whines about how chicks are mostly into jerks.
"I'd show them what a great guy I am if only they'd give me a chance!" he dreams.
No. No chance. Not yours. |
Hey, those aren't sensitive guys, and shouldn't bear the honourable (if in a Knights Who Say Ni kind of way) title of nerds.
Assuming some loving is owing to you if you mope hard enough is every bit as much the sign of jerkdom as perhaps almost any disrespect, short of abuse, from the traditional male jerk.
The traditional jerk struts around in his sense of entitlement; the "girls always go for the jerks" jerk-himself,-in-denial, wallows in it. Neither respects women romantically or is the least bit ready to love them so. And I wonder if the "girls always go for the jerks" crowd isn't even really farther gone.
Sensitive type? Not so much? Nerd? Jock? Listen to the women, and/or the men, around you, value them. Don't assume they owe you anything for your own sake, but show them what you have to offer. Accept that no person or class owes you anything; appreciate their own decisions and their own needs, and do as much to meet them as you can. And watch your own standards - the great complaint of the fake-sensitive jerk is often, stated or unstated, that a particular class of 'hot girls' only go out with [class of men of which he doesn't count himself a member].
Vaguely related: Emo: Where the Girls Aren't (Jessica Hopper, Punk Planet 56, 2003; cache via Internet Archive). |
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thwap Fulltime enMasse Member

Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 4564 Location: Hamilton
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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My greatest fear is that the NDP is the great-sounding guy, who Ms. Canada finally notices, or maybe she was leery of him because he lived on the wrong side of the tracks or something, ... but then she started talking to him, realized he was great and that the LPC and CPC were completely shallow, manipulative thugs.
So she moved in with the NDP and he turned out to be just as abusive as the other two.
And the GPC was a write-off, lying in the weeds trying vainly to execute stock trades on a wind-powered laptop.
 _________________ Man! I hate them fancy-lads! |
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shavluk *BANNED*
Joined: 25 Oct 2006 Posts: 198
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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wait until dec 3 rd we may all go to the liberals
speaking for the ex BCMP ,,,
layton shouldnt be so rude to people he invites over |
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Rufus Polson Purple Library Guy
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 3483 Location: SFU and/or the college of Riddlemastery at Caithnard
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:39 am Post subject: |
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| Corey wrote: | | RP. wrote: | the nerdy, sensitive guy who whines about how chicks are mostly into jerks.
"I'd show them what a great guy I am if only they'd give me a chance!" he dreams.
No. No chance. Not yours. |
Assuming some loving is owing to you if you mope hard enough is every bit as much the sign of jerkdom as perhaps almost any disrespect, short of abuse, from the traditional male jerk. |
Some truth to this, no doubt, but I think a tad bit of unfairness as well.
Yeah, everyone who gets rejected a lot ends up packing some self-pity.
Some people who pack some self pity orient themselves around it so much they become jerks.
So, does that mean everyone who's been rejected a lot is a jerk?
Everyone who's not the life of the fucking party extrovert is a jerk?
Frankly, I think introverts are a fairly identifiable group and this kind of blanket condemnation of them is hateful and basically a violation of EnMasse guidelines.
| Quote: | | The traditional jerk struts around in his sense of entitlement; the "girls always go for the jerks" jerk-himself,-in-denial, wallows in it. Neither respects women romantically or is the least bit ready to love them so. And I wonder if the "girls always go for the jerks" crowd isn't even really farther gone. |
You know, this really makes me wanna violate some guidelines myself--with a fair amount of prejudice. Partly 'cause as someone who's been in that situation, it's pretty hurtful. Partly because it's bullshit. Pseudo-psychological bullshit of the anyone-who's-unhappy-is-really-just-projecting variety. In real life, the "sensitive guys" aren't making this up. I mean, are you going to say there *aren't* lots of jerks around, and that many of them *aren't* quite successful with women? The fact is that the ability to advertize successfully is not the same as the ability to satisfy in a relationship, and that oddly enough the qualities that it works best to advertize aren't even the ones that will actually satisfy in a relationship. I personally found that things went better as I gradually adopted a somewhat more aggressive persona--I was perceived as more "manly" and so on, and therefore a more appropriate candidate for romance. Mostly I don't think this even operated at a conscious level. And frankly, it worries me--to what extent did I end up internalizing the mask, genuinely becoming a more aggressive person, closer to masculine stereotypes and farther from my native inclinations of how to be? Now and then I think back and resent that our social environment pushed me in that way.
I don't have to worry about it so much any more 'cause I'm happily married, but has the damage been done? Of course, perhaps I should be grateful--I certainly don't take as much shit as I used to.
| Quote: | | Sensitive type? Not so much? Nerd? Jock? Listen to the women, and/or the men, around you, value them. Don't assume they owe you anything for your own sake, but show them what you have to offer. |
Yeah, thanks. Your condescension is greatly appreciated. |
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Corey Non-Threatening Boy

Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1972
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| Rufus Polson wrote: | | Corey wrote: | | RP. wrote: | the nerdy, sensitive guy who whines about how chicks are mostly into jerks.
"I'd show them what a great guy I am if only they'd give me a chance!" he dreams.
No. No chance. Not yours. |
Assuming some loving is owing to you if you mope hard enough is every bit as much the sign of jerkdom as perhaps almost any disrespect, short of abuse, from the traditional male jerk. |
Some truth to this, no doubt, but I think a tad bit of unfairness as well.
Yeah, everyone who gets rejected a lot ends up packing some self-pity.
Some people who pack some self pity orient themselves around it so much they become jerks.
So, does that mean everyone who's been rejected a lot is a jerk?
Everyone who's not the life of the fucking party extrovert is a jerk?
Frankly, I think introverts are a fairly identifiable group and this kind of blanket condemnation of them is hateful and basically a violation of EnMasse guidelines. |
*shocked* Huh? Where the heck did that come from?
I was taking on two things:
> "Assuming some loving is owing to you if you mope hard enough"
This is the same thing RP. was taking on above, no problem.
> "disrespect... from the traditional male jerk"
And I was basically trying to say that they are not far from each other, both expressions of entitlement.
Where, in anything I said or came the least bit close to saying, did any of the rest of this absolute garbage come from?
| Rufus Polson (who I'm repeating here to go over these one by one) wrote: | | Yeah, everyone who gets rejected a lot ends up packing some self-pity. |
Uh, yeah, probably? But you're introducing this idea now.
| Rufus Polson wrote: | | Some people who pack some self pity orient themselves around it so much they become jerks. |
I guess, if you say so? Or some people who would have been jerks no matter what latch on to the excuse. But this is not my argument.
| Rufus Polson wrote: | | So, does that mean everyone who's been rejected a lot is a jerk? |
Hell no. Did I say anything like this?
| Rufus Polson wrote: | | Everyone who's not the life of the fucking party extrovert is a jerk? |
WTF? I'm the most introverted person I know. Well, for a broader sample, I'm the most introverted person social butterflies I know know. Where did I say or suggest anything about introversion? I was talking about people, whether introverted or extroverted, who disrespect women, or whatever potential romantic partners, by assuming they, the lonely men, have got something owing from the women.
| Rufus Polson wrote: | | Frankly, I think introverts are a fairly identifiable group and this kind of blanket condemnation of them is hateful and basically a violation of EnMasse guidelines. |
Then please don't make up condemnation out of whole cloth and attribute it to someone who would never imagine such a thing!
But if anybody really thinks I thought or said or suggested this, don't worry, I'm gone.
| Rufus Polson wrote: | | Quote: | | The traditional jerk struts around in his sense of entitlement; the "girls always go for the jerks" jerk-himself,-in-denial, wallows in it. Neither respects women romantically or is the least bit ready to love them so. And I wonder if the "girls always go for the jerks" crowd isn't even really farther gone. |
You know, this really makes me wanna violate some guidelines myself--with a fair amount of prejudice. Partly 'cause as someone who's been in that situation, it's pretty hurtful. Partly because it's bullshit. Pseudo-psychological bullshit of the anyone-who's-unhappy-is-really-just-projecting variety. In real life, the "sensitive guys" aren't making this up. I mean, are you going to say there *aren't* lots of jerks around, and that many of them *aren't* quite successful with women? |
No, there are certainly a lot of jerks around, and many of them are certainly quite "successful," by the outward measures I guess we're talking about here, with women; I was thinking of this exact type above, when I was talking about the "traditional male jerk."
But. The character RP. introduced says that "chicks are mostly into jerks," (emphasis mine). If you're a man attracted to women and your assessment of the women out there is that "chicks are mostly into jerks," you do have a problem with women, and I hope you grow out of it and learn to listen and value and stuff that I tried to sketch out below. This "you" is the unsuccessful nerdy guy RP. was talking about - that's the post I quoted and I was responding to - certainly not "you" Rufus, or anybody else personally. This "you" is ABSOLUTELY NOT a representation of introverts or any of this stuff that just came out of nowhere. You can imagine a "hey baaaby" extrovert, obnoxious enough that they couldn't find many or any partners, and make exactly this complaint about 'chicks being mostly into jerks,' and be exactly the same kind of jerk-in-denial.
| Rufus Polson wrote: | | The fact is that the ability to advertize successfully is not the same as the ability to satisfy in a relationship, and that oddly enough the qualities that it works best to advertize aren't even the ones that will actually satisfy in a relationship. |
Some times, yes. It depends.
| Rufus Polson wrote: | I personally found that things went better as I gradually adopted a somewhat more aggressive persona--I was perceived as more "manly" and so on, and therefore a more appropriate candidate for romance. Mostly I don't think this even operated at a conscious level. And frankly, it worries me--to what extent did I end up internalizing the mask, genuinely becoming a more aggressive person, closer to masculine stereotypes and farther from my native inclinations of how to be? Now and then I think back and resent that our social environment pushed me in that way.
I don't have to worry about it so much any more 'cause I'm happily married, but has the damage been done? Of course, perhaps I should be grateful--I certainly don't take as much shit as I used to. |
(No response... entirely wise, very self-knowledgable, and self-reflective.)
| Rufus Polson wrote: | | Quote: | | Sensitive type? Not so much? Nerd? Jock? Listen to the women, and/or the men, around you, value them. Don't assume they owe you anything for your own sake, but show them what you have to offer. |
Yeah, thanks. Your condescension is greatly appreciated. |
Rufus, I was talking, figuratively, at first, to a person who was given this picture and these captions
and was mouthing a stupid, shallow, ultimately misogynist line about "most" "chicks" only wanting jerks. And RP. himself said he would simply never get with the out-of-his-class sort of women he pined after. I don't think I introduced the idea this one guy - who looks a little more like a "hey baaaby" extrovert than an introvert, not that any of that ever came up - kind of might deserve some condescension?
Yes, I sort of moved on and talked to the floor of men with this sense of entitlement I kind of pointed at and was trying to wrestle with, but, for God's sake, certainly not you or anybody else actually reading here.
I don't know where the hell you got the idea I was saying any of these indefensible things. I have no idea. Just... no idea. I'm sorry. |
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Tehanu More or less, more or less

Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 17640 Location: Seceded from the Ford Nation
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:03 am Post subject: |
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:confused: ... sounds to me like Rufus and Corey are saying very much the same thing.
And it's a good thing to talk about, even though it's thread drift. The issue of how men seem to be socially pressured into behaving in aggressive ways in order to be seen as attractive; and the preconception that sensitive, or nice, or introverted guys are not seen as attractive, which of course is a crock, and which says something pretty horrible about perceptions around straight relationships, doesn't it?
Then there's the other issue of certain men who have been rejected, who then take it out on women, either aggressively or passive-aggressively.
Now, I'm not a guy, but in my relationships with women I've bumped into a couple of these issues and have, indeed, found myself (to my great regret) once or twice reacting in a way that seems stereotypically guyish, if I can coin a word. Particularly, turning cold or pushing away women who were, I thought at the time, being far to dependent and clingy. Not so good, or honest. |
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Corey Non-Threatening Boy

Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1972
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:42 am Post subject: |
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| Tehanu wrote: | | :confused: ... sounds to me like Rufus and Corey are saying very much the same thing. |
*approaches this cautiously, pending any response from Rufus, but...* I think so?
| Tehanu wrote: | | And it's a good thing to talk about, even though it's thread drift. The issue of how men seem to be socially pressured into behaving in aggressive ways in order to be seen as attractive; and the preconception that sensitive, or nice, or introverted guys are not seen as attractive, which of course is a crock, and which says something pretty horrible about perceptions around straight relationships, doesn't it? |
Say, straight or bi women of enmasse...
Matt Damon or Arnold Schwarzenegger?
...Any votes for Arnold? Even one? Come on. Be honest.
| Tehanu wrote: | | Then there's the other issue of certain men who have been rejected, who then take it out on women, either aggressively or passive-aggressively. |
Yes! This is what I was talking about. |
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RP. Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 513 Location: Ft. McMurray
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Corey wrote: | | And RP. himself said he would simply never get with the out-of-his-class sort of women he pined after. |
I didn't say anything about me never getting with the out of-my-class sort of women I pined after. When I wanted to do that, I just acted like a jerk.
(joking, joking) |
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Rufus Polson Purple Library Guy
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 3483 Location: SFU and/or the college of Riddlemastery at Caithnard
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Corey, apologies for misconstruing you--and perhaps RP. I wasn't frankly too thrilled with RP's post, which seemed to me to invoke a hostile and demeaning stereotype of the "nerdy, sensitive guy" and reinforce it with this picture of what appeared to be a total dickhead, which was apparently representative of "nerdy, sensitive guys". I didn't really massively like the political message either (the NDP is like a nerdy, sensitive guy, therefore the NDP is toast just like the nerds are). But it looked like basically just a joke (just joking, where's your sense of humour?) so I responded lightly.
So then it seemed as if you chimed in to reinforce/agree with RP's message, only being apparently serious. Already somewhat annoyed, I hit the roof. I see now that you weren't really saying what I thought you were, but looking at your post it's hard to tell how broadly the net is being cast--whether you're saying that there's a tiny subset of guys who don't deserve to be in the "sensitive nerd" category, or whether you're saying that "sensitive nerds" in general aren't *really* sensitive, just a bunch of whiners. You were concentrating on the phrase "who whines about how chicks are mostly into jerks" as a differentiator, where I saw it as, and assumed you were accepting it as, a smear to be applied to "sensitive nerds" in general. I'm not actually convinced that wasn't what RP was, nominally humorously, intending.
So my misconstruction of your intent released the bitterness of my persecuted youth--and there's no bitterness like teenage bitterness. Even when it's boiling to the surface after a lot of years. |
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Corey Non-Threatening Boy

Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1972
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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From big-big-truck.com. |
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TS. Delicious schadenfreude

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 14585 Location: Toronto, ON
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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^ I have seen examples of people doing that far to many times. To behave like that really does represent the height of self-absorption. _________________ "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson
Last edited by TS. on Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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RP. Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 513 Location: Ft. McMurray
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Rufus Polson wrote: | | I wasn't frankly too thrilled with RP's post, which seemed to me to invoke a hostile and demeaning stereotype of the "nerdy, sensitive guy" and reinforce it with this picture of what appeared to be a total dickhead, which was apparently representative of "nerdy, sensitive guys". I didn't really massively like the political message either (the NDP is like a nerdy, sensitive guy, therefore the NDP is toast just like the nerds are). But it looked like basically just a joke (just joking, where's your sense of humour?) so I responded lightly. |
And yet, even though I knew that I would produce that exact response in someone, I proceeded. Thankfully, for me, God's grace is infinite.
(I wouldn't have posted it if (1) I wasn't at one time an agonized nerd with nothing to offer the lay-dayz (2) I wasn't a staunch NDP supporter and (3) the picture of the guy wasn't from an advertisement for a "nerd wig", and thus someone deliberately trying hard to look like a total dickhead.)
So, yeah, it's all self-mockery. Laugh at it. |
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RP. Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 513 Location: Ft. McMurray
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| But also, I thought the analogy was apt, for at least some NDP workers or supporters, who condescendingly believe that voters would give them a chance if only those voters were smart enough to realize that they want to support the NDP. |
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leftcoastguy Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 5977 Location: Leftcoast
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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WCT
Good article - thanks for your perspective on things.
Cheers, _________________ Thinking is so overrated.  |
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West Coast Tiger Super-Link Mistress
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 3060 Location: Obviously Concealed
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:37 am Post subject: |
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Thanks LCG.
Just to sum up my choice of analogy here:
I awoke in the middle of the night when I wrote this article. It's been bothering me for some time as to WHY the NDP still lurks in the shadows in terms of gaining any significant power. The analogy popped into my head... I view them as the underdogs in so many ways. And like a lot of great people I know, they have lots to offer, but really aren't given a proper chance (JUST ONCE!) to show us what they've got. That's disturbing to me as a lefty AND a Canadian. So the analogy stuck whether it's a good analogy or not -- it works for me, and it's an observation.
I do hope I didn't come off as condescending. That was never my intention. My intention was to say, "Hey Canada... Why do we give these other turkeys a chance when we have something that seems quite decent right in front of us?" It's important to really think about the choices we make during elections -- I'm sure we can all agree on that. And it's not always best to "go with what we know" as it leads to a pattern that isn't always good for us. I took that same philosophy and applied it in this article. Whether that was a good decision or not is really up to the reader. So, like the advice you might give to a friend, I chose to offer up my own brand of advice. It may not be the right, correct, or best analogy, but it's the one that stood out when I wrote the article. And anyway... this was my very first attempt EVER at writing an article. Thus, it is what it is.  _________________ ~ Rational ravings from a relative stranger in a troubled paradise. ~ |
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Corey Non-Threatening Boy

Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1972
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| West Coast Tiger wrote: | this was my very first attempt EVER at writing an article. Thus, it is what it is.  |
And from a subject as dry as Canadian politics, within two or three responses, you got a roomful of guys talking about their feelings.
Moral: You are the greatest writer, ever. Write more.  |
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West Coast Tiger Super-Link Mistress
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 3060 Location: Obviously Concealed
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| Corey wrote: | | West Coast Tiger wrote: | this was my very first attempt EVER at writing an article. Thus, it is what it is.  |
And from a subject as dry as Canadian politics, within two or three responses, you got a roomful of guys talking about their feelings.
Moral: You are the greatest writer, ever. Write more.  |
Thank you so much for saying that, Corey! I *might* do that if I can work up the nerve again.
But isn't it about time someone else wrote something? (Hint-hint-nudge-nudge)
BTW Corey: I missed ya! Glad to see you're back!!  _________________ ~ Rational ravings from a relative stranger in a troubled paradise. ~ |
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DSquared aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 5570 Location: Winnipeg
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| West Coast Tiger wrote: | I awoke in the middle of the night when I wrote this article. It's been bothering me for some time as to WHY the NDP still lurks in the shadows in terms of gaining any significant power. The analogy popped into my head... I view them as the underdogs in so many ways. And like a lot of great people I know, they have lots to offer, but really aren't given a proper chance (JUST ONCE!) to show us what they've got. That's disturbing to me as a lefty AND a Canadian. So the analogy stuck whether it's a good analogy or not -- it works for me, and it's an observation.
I do hope I didn't come off as condescending. That was never my intention. My intention was to say, "Hey Canada... Why do we give these other turkeys a chance when we have something that seems quite decent right in front of us?" It's important to really think about the choices we make during elections -- I'm sure we can all agree on that. And it's not always best to "go with what we know" as it leads to a pattern that isn't always good for us. I took that same philosophy and applied it in this article. Whether that was a good decision or not is really up to the reader. So, like the advice you might give to a friend, I chose to offer up my own brand of advice. It may not be the right, correct, or best analogy, but it's the one that stood out when I wrote the article. And anyway... this was my very first attempt EVER at writing an article. Thus, it is what it is.  |
I think the key thing here is to look at Canada's 2 major provinces: the party is practically on life support in one, and not a factor in the other. (Don't forget that in 5 of the 7 provinces that have elected federal MPs, the provincial NDP has either at one point formed the government or is doing very well.) However, it was not always this way. In the 1980s, the NDP did lead in opinion polls nationally, and I don't think it's a co-incidence that Ontario elected its first NDP government about this time. We all know how that ended up, and to this day the ONDP is still feeling the impacts. I think that's going to change. The Party seems to have learned from its mistakes, and the next Ontario election is looking to be a minority, with an NDP balance of power. I think this could lead to Ontario residents gradually regaining trust in the NDP, and that will likely lead to greater things on both the provincial and national stages.
Having said that, if given a choice between the federal arrangement where the NDP is in 3rd or 4th place but being very effective at getting its agenda passed, or the situation we have in Manitoba where an NDP government has in many ways abandoned its own base, I'd prefer to go with the former. _________________ This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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thwap Fulltime enMasse Member

Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 4564 Location: Hamilton
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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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Essentially though, this article continues to resonate with me, because, whatever its faults (and there are many), the NDP should have been the first decent choice of voters.
The CPC is braindead and disgusting, and the Liberal Party of Canada is a lying, two-timing, arrogant prick.
Why Ontario's PC's are still politically viable is beyond me. I know there are a lot of stupid people out there (30% of any given society apparently) but I don't know how they can be that stupid and ignorant. |
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TS. Delicious schadenfreude

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 14585 Location: Toronto, ON
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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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The phrase "mainstream media" springs to mind. _________________ "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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thwap Fulltime enMasse Member

Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 4564 Location: Hamilton
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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| TS. wrote: | | The phrase "mainstream media" springs to mind. |
Sure, but we've seen through it. What's up with the Harper-lovers? They're not really "brainwashed," they love the stupid mother-fucker. |
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leftcoastguy Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 5977 Location: Leftcoast
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Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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What percentage of potential voters actually give a rat's ass about politics - very few, I surmise.
A lot of people are in basic survival mode what with just trying to keep a roof over their heads, and food in their stomachs, and their kids in school so that they will have a better future. I actually think the poor are keep poor on purpose with the advantage for the establishment being that the poor don't have the time to focus on power issues in Canada, and how often they/we are manipulated. And the mainstream press with their screaming headline diversions play right into that. If you/we are constantly being stressed out, it is no wonder many of your/our decisions are against our best interests, because your/our judgment is clouded.
This is why the right wing parties are successful - they ofter up simplistic solutions to complex issues to voters who don't have, or don't take the time to dissect them. _________________ Thinking is so overrated.  |
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