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Rufus Polson
Purple Library Guy
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 3483
Location: SFU and/or the college of Riddlemastery at Caithnard
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 Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Raped "savagely" apparently. Does that mean it would be OK if they were only raped *gently*? |
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Hephaestion
Deeply Shallow
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 24243
Location: Where the Wild Things Are...
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| Rufus Polson wrote: | | Raped "savagely" apparently. Does that mean it would be OK if they were only raped *gently*? |
á la a "senseless" or "unnecessary" death....
No doubt.
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Hephaestion
Deeply Shallow
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Location: Where the Wild Things Are...
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Hephaestion
Deeply Shallow
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 24243
Location: Where the Wild Things Are...
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| Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:53 am Post subject: |
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Queer Iranians face stark decisions, slim hopes in election unrest; even a victory for the opposition won't improve lives in the short term, says activist
| Quote: | Parsi says that many Iranian queers campaigned for Mousavi, considered a moderate, or the reformist candidate Mehdi Karroubi — anyone but Ahmadinejad, whose term in office was marked by vigorous persecution of gays.
Several gay Iranians have reportedly been arrested as part of the government's bloody crackdown on street demonstrations. Those who are already known to be gay risk jail time or abuse in Iran's notorious prison system, says Parsi.
The dangerous situation has led to a jump in the number gays fleeing the country. In a typical month, Parsi says, the Iranian Queer Railroad becomes aware of one or two refugees applying for resettlement in a queer-friendly country. But in the last two months "we've received 15 applications, which is a high volume," says Parsi.
The involvement of gay protesters in the fight over Iran's presidency might baffle some Western observers. What could they hope to achieve when the true power lies with the country's theocratic rulers?
Given the Islamic republic's entrenched system of sharia law, which dictates the death penalty for gay sex, improvements in queer rights are usually measured by how much authorities turn a blind eye, notes Janet Afary, professor of history and women's studies at Purdue University and author of Sexual Politics in Modern Iran.
Under the leadership of reformist president Mohammad Khatami from 1997 to 2005 authorities observed a "don't ask, don't tell" policy around gay relationships and even allowed the publication of queer newspapers.
"They were not accepting of homosexuals but they were not aggressively pursuing them, either," says Afary.
Ahmadinejad, on the other hand, pioneered using the internet to track down gays while paradoxically telling US students at Columbia University in 2007, "In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country."
The lack of discussion about gay rights in the reform camp could signal a disinterest in continuing the provocative policies of the past four years, Afary says.
"If anything, at this point I think [change] would mean simply ignoring gay relationships, as they had done before." |
more @ link
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Hephaestion
Deeply Shallow
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Location: Where the Wild Things Are...
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bshmr
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 4004
Location: Central USA, Earth
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| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:17 am Post subject: |
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What every class and ethnic group, excluding those with cognitive deficiencies, in the USA and likely the rest of the world knows.
http://www.blackcommentator.com/344/344_cover_aw_iran_nuclear.html
What Is Not Being Discussed In The Iran Nuclear Story
By Bill Fletcher, Jr., BlackCommentator.com Executive Editor; Black Commentator; October 1, 2009
| Quote: | Last week's announcement of the discovery of a previously unknown but suspected nuclear research and production site became a major story in the Western media. The Obama administration, along with its allies in Europe, saw this as evidence of Iranian duplicity on the matter of its nuclear intentions. Though Iran admitted the existence of this facility, the manner in which it did so seemed to be directed at heading off the expose' from other sources.
... |
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bshmr
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 4004
Location: Central USA, Earth
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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Pirate strikes in the Mediterrean again, IMO.
Offical MSM reports [psychic] commandos intercept goods 'teleported' into Egypt instead of directly 'teleported' into warehouses in country of intended use. Israelis bewildered by persistent stupidity of Iranians, who defy Israel's divinely provided psychic prowess.
Besides other nations don't have a god-given right to be able to defend themselves.
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE5A31EI20091104
Israeli navy intercepts arms ship: military
Wed Nov 4, 2009 8:20am EST; By Jeffrey Heller
| Quote: | JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel said on Wednesday its navy intercepted in the Mediterranean a container ship carrying rockets destined for Lebanon's Iranian-backed Hezbollah group and took the vessel to an Israeli port.
Israeli media reports said the weaponry was supplied by Iran.
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Hephaestion
Deeply Shallow
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 24243
Location: Where the Wild Things Are...
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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Andy Towle has a round-up of links on current Iran situation:
The Opposition Rises Up in Iran
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Hephaestion
Deeply Shallow
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| Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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More links, via Boing Boing
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The Evil Twin
Stoned Immaculate
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 3746
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:01 am Post subject: |
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All I can hope for is that these demonstrations are a genuine uprising by the pissed off oppressed populace against a theocratic and homophobic regime rather than a Western funded and directed effort. I sincerely wish what we're seeing isn't a repeat of the CIA sponsored "popular revolutions" (IOW coups) that took place in Ukraine and Georgia where one set of corrupt thugs (pro-Russian) were replaced by another set of corrupt thugs (pro-American, and incompetent to boot) . If this is a genuine explosion of popular discontent, I wish the best of luck to the demonstrators. I don't know much else at the moment to really take one side or the other, and I doubt any of the talking heads I see on CNN and BBC do either.
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Cartman
Beyond cuddly
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 8635
Location: OMG! They killed Jason Kenney!
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| Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| Harper demands Iran halt their uranium enrichment. I bet that sure scares them! Rather than making such useless comments, perhaps we could get them to help us with Chalk River. The Iranians seem to show more ambition in this regard. Remember that little problem Harper? |
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Maestro
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 2356
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:43 am Post subject: |
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If some person posted this as a joke, the right wing-nuts would be offended. Just more of those loathsome lefties making things up...
Saudi FM al-Faisal doubts Iran sanctions plans
| Quote: | Imposing more sanctions on Iran over its nuclear programme would not be a quick enough solution, Saudi Arabia's foreign minister has said.
Prince Saud al-Faisal said the threat posed by Iran demanded a "more immediate solution" than sanctions.
He spoke in Riyadh alongside US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who earlier said Iran was "becoming a military dictatorship".
...Speaking to students at a Qatar university earlier on Monday, she said Iran's elite army corps, the Revolutionary Guard, had gained so much power they had effectively supplanted the government.
"We see that the government of Iran, the supreme leader, the president, the parliament, is being supplanted and that Iran is moving toward a military dictatorship. That is our view," Mrs Clinton said on her maiden visit to the kingdom. |
While standing beside the Saudi foreign minister Secretary of State Clinton decries Iran for becoming a dictatorship. This has to be pretty close to the most overt hypocrisy in the history of US foreign policy. The House of Saud rules their 'kingdom' by decree, enforced by the good offices of the US military.
Good, bad, or indifferent, the Irani government is light years ahead of the Saudi regime in terms of democracy. Democracy didn't come to Iran until the locals threw out the US satrap, Reza Shah Pahlavi. At that, the "Western powers" allowed the return of Ayatollah Khomeini rather than having the power vacuum filled with leftists. Remember that the students were at the heart of the overthrow of the Shah. The hope of the US was that Khomeini would return Iran to a dictatorship similar to Saudi Arabia.
In the beginning they got more or less what they wanted (the continuation of the Pahlavi dictatorship aside). The more reactionary Muslims were given great sway, one of the results being the fatwa against Salman Rushdie. However, despite those best efforts on the part of the US to salvage what they could out of the collapse of the Shah, democracy did break out. If the results of that democracy are that the government is populated with populists and reactionaries, we would wish for better.
At the same time, it is absolutely up to the Iranian people to determine their government and their future. Using Saudi Arabia as a propagandist "battering ram" against Iran is the complete denial of democracy.
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Rufus Polson
Purple Library Guy
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 3483
Location: SFU and/or the college of Riddlemastery at Caithnard
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Obama's Doublespeak on Iran
Just in case we were under any illusions that the US has any intentions of ever reaching any kind of deal with Iran, no matter what the conditions:
| Quote: | As promised, Obama sent two separate letters on April 20 to Lula and Erdogan detailing the US parameters of a possible deal.
. . .
In his letter, Obama detailed four conditions for any resolution to be satisfactory to the US.
. . .
Armed with the concrete American conditions and after receiving a positive response to negotiate, conveyed to Davuto?lu by the Iranian leadership, the foreign minister of Brazil Celso Amorim flew to Iran a week later on April 27, to prepare for a state visit by Lula to hammer out a final agreement based on the American proposal.
The Brazilian president arrived in Tehran on May 15 and was joined by the Turkish prime minister the following day. In an 18-hour negotiation marathon session, the two world leaders impressed on the Iranian leadership the significance of accepting all four parameters outlined in Obama’s letter.
On May 17, an agreement based on the American and IAEA proposals was signed by the foreign ministers of all three countries. A week later Iran submitted an official letter to the IAEA acknowledging the pact and stating its intention to transfer its LEU to Turkey within one month once the plan was accepted.
To the complete surprise of Brazil and Turkey, the White House and the State Department dismissed the deal out of hand within 24 hours, rejecting the same principles outlined in Obama’s letter. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton even called it “a ploy” before a hearing in the Senate’s Committee on Foreign Relations on May 18, declaring that a sanctions resolution against Iran in the Security Council is imminent. |
So, short version:
Obama--These are the conditions that would be necessary for a deal.
Lula, Erdogan and Iran--OK, here's a deal that adheres strictly to those conditions.
Obama--What treachery is this?! How dare you give me exactly what I said I wanted? |
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bshmr
Fulltime enMasse Member
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al-Qa'bong
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 6040
Location: A monistic vulgarity in which nobility and wisdom have been exchanged for a pale belief in progress
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The U.S. has Iran completely encircled. It has over 100,000 troops in the nation on Iran’s eastern border (Afghanistan, where, just incidentally, the U.S. continued through this year to turn over detainees to a prison notorious for torture) and has occupied the nation on Iran’s western border (Iraq) for eight years, and will continue to maintain a “small army” of private contractors and CIA officials after it “withdraws.” The U.S. continuously flies drone aircraft over and drops bombs on the nation on Iran’s southeastern border (Pakistan). Its NATO ally (Turkey) is situated on Iran’s northwestern border. The U.S. has troops stationed in multiple countries just a few hundred miles across the Persian Gulf from Iran, virtually all of which are client states. The U.S. has its Fifth Fleet stationed in a country less than 500 miles from Iran (Bahrain) containing “US warships and contingents of U.S. Marines.” And the U.S. routinely arms Iran’s two most virulent rivals (Israel and Saudi Arabia) with sophisticated weaponry.
But, New York Times readers were told today, the U.S. must increase its military presence still further in that region because . . . it is Iran (which has no military bases in countries bordering the U.S. or fleets stationed off its coast) that is “belligerent” and poses a “threat” (after all, they just dispatched a failed Texan used car salesman who constantly loses his own keys and can’t pay his bills to hire teams of Mexican drug cartel gunmen to attack a Saudi ambassador on American soil!). |
Middle East propaganda 101
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"We can't all be Sam the Sham; some of us have to be Pharoahs" Larry, brother of Darrel, and his other brother Daryl |
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Maestro
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:52 am Post subject: |
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Cogent words on Iran's 'nuclear ambitions:
Iran and the I.A.E.A.
| Quote: | I’ve been reporting on Iran and the bomb for The New Yorker for the past decade, with a focus on the repeatedly inability of the best and the brightest of the Joint Special Operations Command to find definitive evidence of a nuclear-weapons production program in Iran.
...Robert Kelley, a retired I.A.E.A. director and nuclear engineer who previously spent more than thirty years with the Department of Energy’s nuclear-weapons program, told me that he could find very little new information in the I.A.E.A. report. He noted that hundreds of pages of material appears to come from a single source: a laptop computer, allegedly supplied to the I.A.E.A. by a Western intelligence agency, whose provenance could not be established.
...The report did note that its on-site camera inspection process of Iran’s civilian nuclear enrichment facilities—mandated under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, to which Iran is a signatory—“continues to verify the non-diversion of declared nuclear material.” In other words, all of the low enriched uranium now known to be produced inside Iran is accounted for; if highly enriched uranium is being used for the manufacture of a bomb, it would have to have another, unknown source.
...ElBaradei’s replacement is Yukiya Amano of Japan. Late last year, a classified U.S. Embassy cable from Vienna, the site of the I.A.E.A. headquarters, described Amano as being “ready for prime time.” According to the cable, which was obtained by WikiLeaks, in a meeting in September, 2009, with Glyn Davies, the American permanent representative to the I.A.E.A., said, “Amano reminded Ambassador on several occasions that he would need to make concessions to the G-77 [the group of developing countries], which correctly required him to be fair-minded and independent, but that he was solidly in the U.S. court on every strategic decision, from high-level personnel appointments to the handling of Iran’s alleged nuclear weapons program.” The cable added that Amano’s “willingness to speak candidly with U.S. interlocutors on his strategy … bodes well for our future relationship.” |
In other words, just more bullshit...
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The Evil Twin
Stoned Immaculate
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:27 am Post subject: |
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First, I don't believe that Iran is looking to develop nuclear weapons. But, let's say that they were, can anyone tell me why shouldn't when the "Big 5" (US, Russia, UK, France, China) + the "small 4" (India, Pakistan, North Korea and Israel) already have them?
Ah of course, the so-called "NPT", the "Non-Proliferation Treaty". I think Iran should do like North Korea, India, Pakistan, Israel and (at one time in the past) apartheid South Africa and either withdraw from the NPT (like NK legally did and as the NPT provides for) or should have refused to ever sign on in the first place (like India, Pakistan, Israel or apartheid era South Africa). Then even if it could be somehow "proven" that they were developing these weapons, it would not be in violation of international law. Anyone attacking them OTOH (IOW the US or Israelis) would be clearly violating international law. Then again, when have either the US or Israel ever given a shit about international law?
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Senor Magoo
He's got a big one
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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Saying that as long as the U.S. or France has nukes then it's only fair that any other nation-state should be allowed to have them too is a bit like saying that if your law-abiding grandfather is allowed to have a .22 rifle then your clearly unbalanced alcoholic neighbour who's going through an acrimonious divorce should also be allowed to have one. Fair's fair!
If we could set any kind of requirement for being in the Nuke Club, I'd suggest we start with "only democracies".
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ronb
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Location: Blackroof country, no gold pavement, tired starling
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Like Pakistan. |
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Senor Magoo
He's got a big one
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 8700
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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As I say, "we could start with..."
Perhaps then we could add "... which aren't currently embroiled in bitter, decades-old religious blood feuds" or something similar.
Of course it would be best if nobody had them, at all, but it's hard to put the genie back in the bottle.
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al-Qa'bong
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 6040
Location: A monistic vulgarity in which nobility and wisdom have been exchanged for a pale belief in progress
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Saying that as long as the U.S. or France has nukes then it's only fair that any other nation-state should be allowed to have them too is a bit like saying that if your law-abiding grandfather is allowed to have a .22 rifle then your clearly unbalanced alcoholic neighbour who's going through an acrimonious divorce should also be allowed to have one. Fair's fair! |
It might be like saying that, but it your analogy means nothing. To be fair though, because you've obviously been successfully bombarded by propaganda for years, why wouldn't you have such a view?
| Quote: | | Perhaps then we could add "... which aren't currently embroiled in bitter, decades-old religious blood feuds" or something similar. |
You'd still be reflecting propaganda.
Another country in the Middle East, which has attacked every one of its neighbours and which is currently violating numerous UN resolutions, has nukes. Your weak analogy might be more applicable there.
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"We can't all be Sam the Sham; some of us have to be Pharoahs" Larry, brother of Darrel, and his other brother Daryl |
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The Evil Twin
Stoned Immaculate
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| al-Qa'bong wrote: |
You'd still be reflecting propaganda.
Another country in the Middle East, which has attacked every one of its neighbours and which is currently violating numerous UN resolutions, has nukes. Your weak analogy might be more applicable there. |
Yes, very much so. Iran has not attacked anyone in centuries, nor does it occupy anyone's territory. In fact, more often than not, it has been the nation being attacked or occupied (In the last century by Czarist Russia (WW I jointly with the UK), the British Empire (WW I and II), Soviet Union (WW II, jointly with the UK) and then by Donald Rumsfield's buddy Saddam Hussein in 80s).
And in addition to ronb's good example of Pakistan (which is believed to have developed the bomb in the 80s under General Zia's military regime), we can also add the USSR (under Stalin in 1949), the PRC (under Mao in 64), South Africa (under the whites only Apartheid regime in 1977) and North Korea (under Kim Jong Il in 2006) as countries with less than "liberal democratic" regimes at the time they became nuclear powers. None of these nations blew up the planet though I'm sure even Magoo will admit that the leaders I just named make the current Iranian leadership look like Gandhian pacifists.
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Maestro
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| al-Qa'bong wrote: | | ...Another country in the Middle East, which has attacked every one of its neighbours and which is currently violating numerous UN resolutions, has nukes. Your weak analogy might be more applicable there. |
This is the elephant in the living room. Israel - which has invaded other countries many times, which steals land from other countries, which has occupied the West Bank for many years, which still controls the borders of both Gaza and the West Bank, which still maintains an embargo around those areas, which has used Canadian and other passports to carry out missions, which has assassinated individuals around the world, and which still keeps Mordechai Vanunu under house arrest (and incommunicado for the most part), which is not a signatory to the Non-Proliferation Treaty - has nuclear weapons.
Clearly the ' unbalanced alcoholic neighbour who's going through an acrimonious divorce' is Israel, not Iran.
What the world should be doing is trying to remove nuclear weapons from Israel. That may have the added benefit of making it possible to reign in the proliferation of nuclear weapons around the world.
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Senor Magoo
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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I thought that the "elephant in the room" referred to something that isn't talked about and that one mustn't mention.
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ronb
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ...yes, and it is the obvious and somewhat embarrassing/awkward source of whatever is wrong in the room. |
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Senor Magoo
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, but I think Israel's nukes were spoken of out loud on page one of this thread, back in 2006.
Unless you mean that *I'm* not talking about them? I'm only considering new members to the nuke club. Everyone who already has them, has them. I'm not sure what you threaten someone with to compel them to dismantle.
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ronb
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Well they are still officially non-existent, Israel's nukes. |
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al-Qa'bong
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Location: A monistic vulgarity in which nobility and wisdom have been exchanged for a pale belief in progress
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Senor Magoo wrote: | | I thought that the "elephant in the room" referred to something that isn't talked about and that one mustn't mention. |
The above quote is what's known as a diversion.
Why focus on those nutty Iranians, who haven't attacked anyone since the Battle of Salamis, when there's a heavily-armed, violent psychopath walking back and forth across the living-room carpet, muttering "I gotta bomb Iran, I gotta bomb Iran"?
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"We can't all be Sam the Sham; some of us have to be Pharoahs" Larry, brother of Darrel, and his other brother Daryl |
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Maestro
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Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Senor Magoo wrote: | | I thought that the "elephant in the room" referred to something that isn't talked about and that one mustn't mention. |
Yes. And I have read countless articles, right and left-wing (well, liberal...) about Iran's non-existent nuclear weapons, and the threat they pose, with nary a word nor a thought given to the nuclear weapons of Israel. There was another on the op-ed page of the Glib & Stale today by Canada's former ambassador to the UN. He generally counselled against taking precipitate action against Iran, described Israel's feint's in that direction, but didn't once mentioned that Israel has nuclear weapons.
I was also around in the days when Israel was transferring nuclear weapons technology to the apartheid government of South Africa. When that story broke the Canadian reporter who wrote it was dismissed as a nut and likely pinko. No more words were allowed on that story.
It is most definitely the 'elephant in the living room' of polite discourse on the Middle East.
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al-Qa'bong
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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Whatever happened to Mordechai Vanunu?
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"The purpose of government is to protect the weak from the powerful" Hammurabi
"We can't all be Sam the Sham; some of us have to be Pharoahs" Larry, brother of Darrel, and his other brother Daryl |
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bshmr
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| Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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I can look but IIRC he's been re-busted because Israel <G> was afraid that he would break one of the many asinine rules of his quasi-release -- like speak forbidden things or with forbidden attitudes to foreigners. It is insane that he can not emigrate still.
I just now looked here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanunu |
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The Evil Twin
Stoned Immaculate
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 3746
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Maestro wrote: |
I was also around in the days when Israel was transferring nuclear weapons technology to the apartheid government of South Africa. When that story broke the Canadian reporter who wrote it was dismissed as a nut and likely pinko. No more words were allowed on that story.
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Yup. The Israeli-South African nuclear cooperation in the Apartheid era is one of those things seldom mentioned because it demolishes the liberal-Zionist and left-Zionist myth that Israel was originally a "progressive nation" ("light unto nations" and all that) a generation ago and that it all only went wrong because of "militant Settlers" and the ultra-right figures like Sharon, Netanyahu and Lieberman.
| Quote: | | On 22 September 1979, a US Vela satellite, built in the 1960s to detect nuclear tests, reported a flash resembling a nuclear detonation in the southern Indian Ocean. The United States, under the Carter administration, initiated an investigation, and the United States' intelligence agencies concluded that the explosion was nuclear, and was a test conducted on an island controlled by South Africa.[57] The intelligence community's estimate was that it was 90% likely to be a nuclear test and a secret study by the Nuclear Intelligence Panel agreed with that initial finding.[58] However, the Carter administration then created a scientific panel led by MIT professor Jack Ruina, to analyze the reliability of the Vela detection; they concluded in July 1980 that the flash "was probably not from a nuclear explosion,"[59][60] Author Richard Rhodes asserts that the Carter administration was concerned about disrupting relations with South Africa, so the administration deliberately obscured their conclusions by putting forward a cover story that the flash was a result of natural causes.[57] According to authors Richard Rhodes[57] and Seymour Hersh, the explosion was a nuclear test conducted by Israel with the cooperation of South Africa. Hersch writes that the explosion was actually the third joint Israeli-South African nuclear test in the Indian Ocean, and the Israelis had sent two IDF ships and "a contingent of Israeli military men and nuclear experts" for the test.[61] |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel
Speaking of Israel, every now and then, one of their leaders actually tells the truth about why Iran may want nuclear weapons....and then of course, has to furiously back peddle.
| Quote: | The classic definition of a campaign gaffe is when a politician inadvertently speaks a truth that will hurt him politically. The first George Bush gaffed when he said that the idea that cutting taxes would increase government revenue was "voodoo economics." Similarly it was a gaffe when Barak Obama said that insecure right-wingers "cling" to religion and guns. In other words, a gaffe is a politically inconvenient truth.
Israeli Defense Minister Ehud gaffed big time this week. In fact, this gaffe is even more colossal than when he said back in 1999 that if he was a stateless young Palestinian, he would "have joined one of the terror organizations." Barak got away with that one perhaps because most Israelis could easily imagine that the most decorated military officer in Israel's history would indeed fight any enemy oppressing his people, by any means at his disposal. The man is, if nothing else, a fighter.
But Barak's remark this week is breathtaking in both its honesty and in its utter deviation from the Israeli government line that has not only been sold to the Israeli people but also to the United States government -- especially to Congress where anything from Bibi Netanyahu's office is treated as gospel.
Appearing on the Charlie Rose show on PBS, Barak was asked if he would want nuclear weapons if he was an Iranian government minister. He said he probably would.
Probably, probably. I know it's not -- I don't delude myself that they are doing it just because of Israel. They look around, they see the Indians are nuclear, the Chinese are nuclear, the Pakistanis are nuclear, not to mention the Russians.
Barak won't "delude" himself with the belief that Iran's nuclear weapon program is "just because of Israel."
Well, it's always nice to be true to yourself. (After the Israeli right went ballistic over Barak's remarks, he qualified them but, in such a half-hearted way, that it is clear that what he said on PBS was what he believes).
Of course, he and Netanyahu, not to mention a host of officials in successive Israeli governments for 15 years have deluded the entire world on the idea that Iran seeks nuclear weapons for the purpose of destroying Israel.
Over and over again, Israeli officials have said that the Iran government is insane with anti-Semitism, so insane that it would joyfully nuke Israel without any regard for the fact that Israel has 200 land, air, and sea-based missiles that could kill millions of Iranians. They have cited as evidence Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's Holocaust denial, essentially arguing that it proves that Iran's goal is a holocaust. |
Oops!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mj-rosenberg/ehud-barak-iran-nuclear-...
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Maestro
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Mordechai Vanunu:
| Quote: | A number of prohibitions were placed upon Vanunu after his release from jail and are still in force, in particular:
he shall not be able to have contacts with citizens of other countries but Israel
he shall not use phones
he shall not own cellullar phones
he shall not have access to the Internet
he shall not approach or enter embassies and consulates
he shall not come within 500 metres of any international border crossing
he shall not visit any port of entry and airport
he shall not leave the State of Israel
On 11 October 2010, Vanunu's appeal to rescind the restrictions and allow him to leave Israel and speak to foreigners was denied by the Israeli Supreme Court. |
All this is spite of the fact:
| Quote: | Ray Kidder, then a senior American nuclear scientist at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, has said:
On the basis of this research and my own professional experience, I am ready to challenge any official assertion that Mr. Vanunu possesses any technical nuclear information not already made public |
It seems obvious that the continued detention and harrassment of Vanunu is intended as an object lesson for any other who might decide to make public an information as to Israel's nuclear weapons.
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al-Qa'bong
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Location: A monistic vulgarity in which nobility and wisdom have been exchanged for a pale belief in progress
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| Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Maestro wrote: | Mordechai Vanunu:
| Quote: | A number of prohibitions were placed upon Vanunu after his release from jail and are still in force, in particular:
he shall not be able to have contacts with citizens of other countries but Israel
he shall not use phones
he shall not own cellullar phones
he shall not have access to the Internet
he shall not approach or enter embassies and consulates
he shall not come within 500 metres of any international border crossing
he shall not visit any port of entry and airport
he shall not leave the State of Israel
On 11 October 2010, Vanunu's appeal to rescind the restrictions and allow him to leave Israel and speak to foreigners was denied by the Israeli Supreme Court. |
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i.e. he shall not speak about the elephant in the room
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Maestro
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:55 am Post subject: |
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Exactly.
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Maestro
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:09 am Post subject: |
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It helps if you know someone from Iran. The contempt they hold for the British is quite palpable:
U.K. outraged by storming of embassy in Tehran
| Quote: | Iranian students stormed two British diplomatic sites in Tehran on Tuesday, vandalizing buildings and sparking international outrage in the process.
...British Prime Minister David Cameron called the events "outrageous and indefensible" and warned that the Iranian government would face "serious consequences" for failing to protect diplomats in line with international law.
...in Ottawa, Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird described the events as "quite outrageous." |
Outrageous is right. It's outrageous that governments who have just finished bombing the shit out of a country because they didn't like the leadership are now fuming because someone else didn't protect their embassy enough. The height of hypocrisy.
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Maestro
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Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:20 am Post subject: |
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And a little further on the Iran nuclear story courtesy of CBC.
Iran really is on nuclear brink.
| Quote: | "We must appreciate this is coming from an organization that in the past has bent over backwards to provide excuses for Iran," says Aurel Braun, a political science professor at the University of Toronto.
"This is not an organization that is anti-Iran. This is not an organization that is a tool of the U.S. This is not an organization that has a track record of making harsh statements about Iran or holding Iran to account."
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Well, I guess if you're going to lie, it might as well be exactly the opposite of the truth. Fyrther:
| Quote: | "And the picture for nuclear weapons looks like this: you need three elements to build a nuclear weapon. You need to be able to build the bomb, you need to be able build the trigger device and you need to have the delivery vehicle.
"So, we know the Iranians have the delivery vehicle, because, you'll recall, they've … sent a number of their short- and medium-range rockets up in the air to boast about those."
It also looks like they have, or are close to having, all the materials needed to build a weapon.
"The hardest thing is the trigger device, because you have to trigger a nuclear bomb in a chain reaction in a particular way, and this actually is quite difficult to do," said Leuprecht, adding that it appears that Iran has set off chain reactions.
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Yeah, of course there's no need to have weapons grade Pu-239. If there was, you wouldn't be able to make the argument that Iran is close to a nuclear weapon, because they don't have weapons grade material, and don't have any way of making it.
Still, this might be something new in physics, a nuclear weapon made from low grade spent power generator fuel...
I kind of wish CBC would take the time to talk to a physicist before shooting off their mouth about something which they apparently know very little.
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The Evil Twin
Stoned Immaculate
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 3746
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:43 am Post subject: |
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| Maestro wrote: |
Yeah, of course there's no need to have weapons grade Pu-239. If there was, you wouldn't be able to make the argument that Iran is close to a nuclear weapon, because they don't have weapons grade material, and don't have any way of making it.
Still, this might be something new in physics, a nuclear weapon made from low grade spent power generator fuel...
I kind of wish CBC would take the time to talk to a physicist before shooting off their mouth about something which they apparently know very little. |
They don't need to speak to any physicists. The two political scientists the CBC cites (Aurel Braun and Christian Leuprecht) are more than amply qualified to comment. Hey...they are political "scientists" right? That must mean they are qualified to rant on every branch of the hard sciences right? Kinda like that Professor on Gilligans Island who knew everything there was to know about physics, biology, chemistry and occasionally even revealed his expertise on social sciences like sociology or anthropolgy. Man must have had multiple PhDs, just like this genius Leuprecht :
| Quote: | "And the picture for nuclear weapons looks like this: you need three elements to build a nuclear weapon. You need to be able to build the bomb, you need to be able build the trigger device and you need to have the delivery vehicle.
"So, we know the Iranians have the delivery vehicle, because, you'll recall, they've … sent a number of their short- and medium-range rockets up in the air to boast about those."
It also looks like they have, or are close to having, all the materials needed to build a weapon.
"The hardest thing is the trigger device, because you have to trigger a nuclear bomb in a chain reaction in a particular way, and this actually is quite difficult to do," said Leuprecht, adding that it appears that Iran has set off chain reactions.
"The concern is they now have all three of those pieces. Now, they still have to be able to put them together, and this is also not all that easy to do, but it would appear the Iranians are getting closer to where they're looking to be." |
Obviously from the above authoritative statement, we can infer that this man has, in addition to his Political Science PhD, multiple qualifications in nuclear physics as well. If not, why should anyone take his pronouncements on the subject anymore seriously than the Cliff Claven-like "know it alls" one finds ranting in dive bars on a Friday night? 
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anne cameron
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 3078
Location: tahsis, british columbia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:00 am Post subject: |
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It's more than a bit depressing, really. The Excited States war machine has been stomping all over the place, and, incidentally, getting its ass kicked. Now they're trying to set the stage to go up against a country which has already shown it is willing to throw the entire population into a meat grinder to protect whatever-in-hell it is countries protect when they march off to war. The war machine which can't even pretend to have "won" much of anything at all in Afghanistan, which hasn't been able to "subdue" a bunch of tribal warlords, is going to lock horns with Iran.
Well, it will be a great and glorious flag waving ass-kicking. Hopefully we won't be dragged into it but Harper and SpudBoy seem to want to pass themselves off as some kind of warriors so we might well wind up losing more lives for vain reasons. But maybe the ass-kicking will be severe enough and total enough even the vultures in warshington will have had enough. Certainly, they can ill afford the economic and financial whallop which will accompany this demonstration of cerebral dissonance. |
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sparqui
Dog tired
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 5152
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:40 am Post subject: |
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Did they bother weighing in on North Korea with their nuclear "expertise"? What a joke. Where's Hans Blix when you need him. Not that he was able to reason with the Rovian zombies in the White House during the ramp-up to the Iraq invasion.
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al-Qa'bong
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Location: A monistic vulgarity in which nobility and wisdom have been exchanged for a pale belief in progress
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| Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Iran's military has shot down a U.S. reconnaissance drone aircraft in eastern Iran and has threatened to respond to the violation of Iranian airspace, a military source told state television Sunday.
"Iran's military has downed an intruding RQ-170 American drone in eastern Iran," Iran's Arabic-language Al Alam state television network quoted the unnamed source as saying.
"The spy drone, which has been downed with little damage, was seized by the Iranian armed forces."
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Iran military shoots down U.S. drone: state TV
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al-Qa'bong
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:46 am Post subject: |
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The US is miffed. Those dastardly Iranians, in whose hostile, uninviting skies the US spy drone malfunctioned and crashed, won't give the drone back. What a provocation!
| Quote: | Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton and Panetta said they’re not optimistic about getting the drone back because of recent Iranian behavior that Clinton said indicated “that the path that Iran seems to be going down is a dangerous one for themselves and the region.”
“We submitted a formal request for the return of our lost equipment as we would in any situation to any government around the world,” Clinton told reporters at a State Department news conference with British Foreign Secretary William Hague.
“Given Iran’s behavior to date we do not expect them to comply but we are dealing with all of these provocations and concerning actions taken by Iran in close concert with our closest allies and partners,” she said.
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Back in the old days, they hanged spies. Now they merely dismantle them to check out their microchips
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"The purpose of government is to protect the weak from the powerful" Hammurabi
"We can't all be Sam the Sham; some of us have to be Pharoahs" Larry, brother of Darrel, and his other brother Daryl |
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al-Qa'bong
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Posts: 6040
Location: A monistic vulgarity in which nobility and wisdom have been exchanged for a pale belief in progress
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The identity of the assassins is inherently unknowable – though a good guess would be the dissident Mujahedin-e-Khalq group on behalf of Mossad. The CIA’s weak human intelligence presence inside Iran makes Secretary Clinton’s categorical denial of American involvement plausible.
Why it is happening is far easier to fathom. Israel, although not the world’s sole assassin, has historical form in this area. In 1963, Mossad embarked on Operation Damocles to menace and murder former Nazi rocket scientists, who, according to a defecting Austrian, were helping Nasser develop rockets that could be equipped with radiological warheads. They received parcel bombs through the post, while their families back in Germany and Austria were threatened with violence. More recently, in 1990, Mossad shot dead the Canadian Gerald Bull outside his Brussels apartment. Bull was helping Saddam Hussein improve Scud missiles while developing a long-range “supergun” as a sideline
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An informal addition to the laws of physics – don’t work for Iran
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al-Qa'bong
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Location: A monistic vulgarity in which nobility and wisdom have been exchanged for a pale belief in progress
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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This bozo should move to the Home of the Brave® and live with the rest of the ultraviolent chickenshirts:
| Quote: | “There is absolutely no doubt they are lying,” Harper said of Iran's claims its nuclear program is for peaceful purposes.
An IAEA report last fall said some of Iran's clandestine activities could be for no other reason than a nuclear weapons program.
"And that, I think, is just beyond dispute at this point," Harper said. "I think the only dispute is how far advanced it is." |
Iran 'frightens me,' Harper says
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sparqui
Dog tired
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Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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He says such dangerous bullshit so matter-of-fact, straight-faced that you have to wonder if Canadians are actually awake and listening.
He goes on to say that the "regime" is fundamentalist and intent on killing. They cannot be trusted and pre-emptive intervention is required.
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bshmr
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| In some forms of psycho-therapy, "Iran 'frightens me,' (Harper says)" would be corrected to "my fantasies of Iran frighten me." and his 'work' would begin from there. Speculating that might wind up that Harper fears being out of a job because of his inadequacies to control distant, complex Iran and citizen opinions of his adequacy, etc. |
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al-Qa'bong
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Location: A monistic vulgarity in which nobility and wisdom have been exchanged for a pale belief in progress
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | In some forms of psycho-therapy, "Iran 'frightens me,' (Harper says)" would be corrected to "my fantasies of Iran frighten me." |
That's a useful distinction. It's similar to people's fear of terrorism. They're afraid of their own propaganda-induced delusions, not unlike a child's being afraid of the monster under the bed.
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Maestro
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Just to get real for a minute, Iran's military budget is roughly 1/4 of Canada's (with a population ~2X ours).
One might ask Harper why the Iranians are so much better at building this huge threatening military with so much less money that we ourselves spend. In fact the constant refrain from the right is that we don't spend enough!
Maybe we should bring a few Iranians here to explain how they can run their military so much more efficiently.
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Senor Magoo
He's got a big one
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Do you suppose it's not the threat of Iranian tanks and infantry rolling into Ottawa that concerns him, but rather the idea of a nutjob like Ahmadinejad having nuclear weapons?
I'm not supporting Harper's alleged fears here, but really, it's not a conventional army that's the problem, so how much Canada spends on Jeeps isn't really that relevant.
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Raos
volatilis vir
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| So we're going to stop spending obscene amounts of money on Jeeps (or fighter jets, or warships, perhaps...) since that's not how we can fight the "real" threat? I'm not disagreeing with your point any more than you're agreeing with Harper, but what threats there may actually be aren't so restricted in the military spending that they're invoked to justify, either. |
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