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Hephaestion
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 Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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Is piracy making a comeback in European waters?
Missing cargo ship sails through English Channel - and then disappears
| Quote: | First the ship reported it had been attacked in waters off Sweden. Then it sailed with no apparent problems through one of the world's busiest shipping lanes. And then it disappeared.
The Arctic Sea, a Maltese-flagged cargo ship, was supposed to make port in Algeria with its cargo of timber on Aug. 4. More than a week later, there's no sign of the ship or its Russian crew.
Piracy has exploded off the coast of lawless Somalia - but could this be an almost unheard of case of sea banditry in European waters?
"If this is a criminal act, it appears to be following a new business model," Marine intelligence expert Graeme Gibbon-Brooks told Sky News on Wednesday. |
More @ link
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Hephaestion
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| Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Vanished cargo ship spotted off Cape Verde
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Hephaestion
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Hephaestion
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| Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Russia says missing Arctic Sea freighter found near Cape Verde, crew alive and healthy
| Quote: | The Russian-crewed freighter that sparked a high-seas mystery when it disappeared nearly three weeks ago has been found by a Russian naval frigate off the West African coast, the country's defence minister said Monday.
The Arctic Sea's 15 crew members, last heard from July 28, were alive and now aboard the navy ship, Defence Minister Anatoly Serdyukov said in a meeting with President Dmitry Medvedev shown on national television.
He did not give details about what happened to the ship, saying the full story could be made known later Monday. |
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Hephaestion
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| Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Russia arrests eight 'Arctic Sea hijackers'
| Quote: | Russia said Tuesday it had arrested eight men for hijacking the Arctic Sea ship whose disappearance in July sparked an international sea hunt.
The two Russians, four Estonians and two Latvians were detained at sea after the Russian navy took control of the ship at an undisclosed location believed to be off the west coast of Africa.
"These people, claiming their boat had engine problems, boarded the Arctic Sea and, using the threat of arms, demanded that the crew follow all of their orders unconditionally," Defence Minister Anatoly Serdyukov said.
The Arctic Sea saga started after the cargo ship left a port in Finland on July 23 and disappeared from radars shortly after, sparking a massive naval hunt.
But even with the arrests important questions remain over what happened to the vessel. A respected Russian shipping expert, Mikhail Voitenko, said he believed important aspects of the story were being covered up. |
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Hephaestion
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| Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Pirates 'threatened to blow up' Arctic Sea ship
| Quote: | Pirates who hijacked the Arctic Sea cargo ship threatened to blow it up unless they were paid a ransom, Interfax news agency said Wednesday, quoting the Russian defence ministry.
"Crewmembers confirm that the hijackers demanded a ransom and threatened to blow the ship up if their orders were not obeyed," the agency quoted an unnamed ministry spokesman as saying.
The hijackers were armed but abandoned their weapons when they were ordered by a Russian warship to stop the vessel, the report said.
The report said interrogation of the crew and hijackers was continuing, but did not specify where this was taking place. |
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Hephaestion
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| Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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Russia admits mystery ship may have had suspect cargo
| Quote: | Top Russian officials on Wednesday acknowledged for the first time that a ship hijacked in the Baltic Sea might have been carrying a suspicious cargo, deepening the mystery around its seizure.
Speculation has been raging that the Arctic Sea -- seized by pirates near Sweden last month and missing for weeks before its recapture by the Russian navy in the Atlantic -- may have held weapons or even nuclear materials.
[...]
"We do not rule out the possibility that the Arctic Sea transported something other than wood," Bastrykin told the official government newspaper Rossiyskaya Gazeta.
"This is why we asked the crew to remain in Moscow, as we must figure out if any one of them was involved in those events," added Bastrykin, who heads the investigative committee of Russian prosecutors.
The reported detention of 11 Arctic Sea sailors by Russian authorities and claims that they are prohibited from communicating with their families have fuelled speculation of a cover-up.
Strangely, just hours after Bastrykin's interview was published, his press service issued a statement denying that the ship had been on any "secret mission" or that it had been carrying illegal materials.
"The investigation currently does not have any information that the ship could have carried any sort of illegal cargo," it said. Its statement also rejected allegations of a cover-up and said the sailors were not being kept in isolation. |
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Rufus Polson
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| Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Curiouser and curiouser. |
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Hephaestion
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:22 am Post subject: |
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When Somali Pirates learn a lesson about robbery on a Grand Scale from Wall Street -- "We've made piracy a community activity"
| Quote: | Somali nautical pirates have established a stock-market where guns and cash are invested in upcoming hijackings, with shares of the proceeds returned to investors:
| Quote: | It is a lucrative business that has drawn financiers from the Somali diaspora and other nations -- and now the gangs in Haradheere have set up an exchange to manage their investments...
"Four months ago, during the monsoon rains, we decided to set up this stock exchange. We started with 15 'maritime companies' and now we are hosting 72. Ten of them have so far been successful at hijacking," Mohammed said.
"The shares are open to all and everybody can take part, whether personally at sea or on land by providing cash, weapons or useful materials ... we've made piracy a community activity." |
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Senor Magoo
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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When I saw this thread alive again I was hoping someone would be coming to the defense of the pirates who murdered a ship's captain a few weeks ago.
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No Yards
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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I think you're being totally unfair to the pirates (Somali) Heph.
Until the pirates (Somali) start taking all the invested resources and dumping them into a big hole, giving themselves big bonuses, bankrupting the market, then retiring with big send-off pensions, they have not come close to raising to the level of immorality and depravity of the real pirates (Wall St.)
But, they are new at this, so I suppose there are still lots of lessons to be learned, and that some day the pirates (Somali) will be just as evil as the real pirates (Wall St.)
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Hephaestion
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| Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Profit-sharing arrangements among Somali pirates
| Quote: | The UN Dispatch went digging through the Security Council to Somalia report on Somali pirates, and discovered a fascinating and corporate arrangement for dividing the spoils:
| Quote: | To be eligible for employment as a pirate, a volunteer should already possess a firearm for use in the operation. For this 'contribution', he receives a 'class A' share of any profit. Pirates who provide a skiff or a heavier firearm, like an RPG or a general purpose machine gun, may be entitled to an additional A-share. The first pirate to board a vessel may also be entitled to an extra A-share.
At least 12 other volunteers are recruited as militiamen to provide protection on land of a ship is hijacked, In addition, each member of the pirate team may bring a partner or relative to be part of this land-based force. Militiamen must possess their own weapon, and receive a 'class B' share -- usually a fixed amount equivalent to approximately US$15,000...
When ransom is received, fixed costs are the first to be paid out. These are typically:
• Reimbursement of supplier(s)
• Financier(s) and/or investor(s): 30% of the ransom
• Local elders: 5 to 10 %of the ransom (anchoring rights)
• Class B shares (approx. $15,000 each): militiamen, interpreters etc.
The remaining sum -- the profit -- is divided between class-A shareholders |
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Rufus Polson
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| Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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The basic split actually looks an awful lot like the way the old pirates of the Spanish main did the divvying up. Of course rules varied, but typically as I recall that was equal shares, captain, quartermaster and sometimes helmsman/navigator got double. I think there may have been extra for first man in a boarding action sometimes as well.
Oh, hey. I looked at the article and responses over at boingboing, and one had something interesting:
| Quote: | | I spoke with a Kenyan Somali living here. He mentioned that an interesting effect of the piracy in regards to the Somali coast is that a lot of the fish have come back. The pirates have scared off all the foreign fishing boats. Not sure if this can be verified or not. |
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voice of the damned
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:12 am Post subject: |
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The Economist praises the Somali pirates' business strategy...
| Quote: | But Professor James believes that the most important lesson firms can learn is one of strategy. He teaches his MBA class that one reason for the pirates' success is that they avoid “symmetrical” conflict—challenging their targets head on by, for example, lining up against the Western navies patrolling the waters—battles they would surely lose. Instead, they use stealth and surprise, attacking targets at their weakest point. In this way, with only a dozen-or-so sailors, they wrest control of huge assets, in the form of oil tankers.
This is a lesson that serves smaller companies well as they look to take bites out of larger rivals. It might be foolish, for example, for a start-up to take on one of the traditional banks head-to-head—only another large bank could afford the pyrrhic battle that would ensue from it protecting its market. But by picking a small, localised fight a start-up can make an impression before a bank has had time to react. An example, says Professor James, is wonga.com. It has taken market share by attacking banks' inflexible lending policies by offering loans for the exact amount and length of time the customer wants. It processes the loans extremely quickly and customers can even get immediate approval using an iPhone app.
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sparqui
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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I heard an interview about this recently on CBC Radio (BBC overnight feed*):
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/soma...
http://www.mudugonline.com/viewArticle.php?articleid=5064
In the interview I listened to, Faarah Mohammed (described as the regional leader) mentioned that he had only recently returned to his native Somalia after having built up a lucrative business in Australia. That raises a red flag for me of some kind of NED funded (or Aussie equivalent) covert resistance movement.
*obviously those overnight feeds are dated canned programming. How I miss the old CBC.
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Senor Magoo
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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Now they're killing civilians.
If the original goal was to stop foreign trawlers from overfishing and to stop foreign freighters from dumping toxic waste then I think they've strayed pretty damn far from their path.
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thwap
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Senor Magoo wrote: | Now they're killing civilians.
If the original goal was to stop foreign trawlers from overfishing and to stop foreign freighters from dumping toxic waste then I think they've strayed pretty damn far from their path. |
They should have blown them all up back when you first said they should have.
God bless the US military!
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fork
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Somali pirates /= The Borg. |
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Senor Magoo
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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So it was just a few bad apples? Whew!
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thwap
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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So what's your point Magoo?
You DID say they should all be destroyed before. Now you bring this up as if it changes anything.
So again I ask, what's your point?
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ronb
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| Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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Decades after the retreat of the colonial powers, large swaths of Africa remain lawless, violent and desperate.
In other news, Generalissimo Franco is still dead. |
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thwap
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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Earlier in this thread i said that the USA and the other imperialist powers should pay tens of billions to rebuild the Somali economy and the US navy should keep other ships out of the area.
I'll change that. NATO should establish a system of guarded convoys AND spend tens of billions to rebuild Somalia's economy.
Magoo at least has been consistent. He said "kill them" months ago and he's saying "kill them" now. Like a rock.
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bshmr
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Senor Magoo
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | They should have blown them all up back when you first said they should have. |
Could you please point to the post where I said they should all have been blown up?
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voice of the damned
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The high-seas shoot-out that left four Americans dead after their yacht was hijacked in the Indian Ocean was provoked by the US navy's intervention, Somali pirates said Wednesday.
The US military said that four Americans onboard a yacht sailing from India to Djibouti captured on Friday had been killed by their pirate captors on Tuesday.
"We got information that the American hostages were killed after the US navy stormed the yacht," a senior commander from the pirate lair of Garacad, in Somalia's northern self-declared state of Puntland, said.
"They tried to rescue the hostages but unfortunately heavy gunfire was exchanged and they (the hostages) died as a result," the pirate, who asked to be named only as Ali, told AFP.
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Obviously, the US military tells a different tale.
link |
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thwap
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Senor Magoo wrote: | | Quote: | | They should have blown them all up back when you first said they should have. |
Could you please point to the post where I said they should all have been blown up? |
Um, did you agree or disagree with the US navy firing upon the pirates?
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Senor Magoo
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Um, did you agree or disagree with the US navy firing upon the pirates? |
The specific pirates that had just killed a ship's captain? Yes, absolutely. Give them a chance to drop their weapons, and otherwise, shoot. Pretty standard procedure.
But you're asserting that I said "kill them ALL". Where? If you can't put up, are you going to shut up?
| Quote: | | The high-seas shoot-out that left four Americans dead after their yacht was hijacked in the Indian Ocean was provoked by the US navy's intervention, Somali pirates said Wednesday. |
Ah. It wasn't provoked by, say, those same pirates boarding a ship carrying guns?
That's as moronic as saying "Your Honour, I was just minding my own business assaulting a guy when he started the problem by fighting back!"
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bshmr
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Convince me that a 'rescuer' who was licensed to kill (use lethal force) didn't toss a grenade into the small cabin where the prisoners were. |
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Senor Magoo
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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I can't argue with a vivid imagination like that.
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thwap
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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Um, do you have a point magoo?
Besides which, it's taken you months to figure out for yourself that you disagree with my characterization of your position.
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bshmr
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| I heard and read a live report, IIRC. Then, there is experience which suggests it is reasonably possible. Though I do see your point that the military of democracies are never deceitful and likewise with their media. BTW, seeing it ain't believing it <g> |
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Senor Magoo
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps the four retirees were actually killed by a falling piece of space debris.
The chances of that are incredibly tiny, but non-zero, so doesn't that theory deserve the same respect and consideration as the possibility that they were killed by the same armed pirates that took control of their boat?
Or maybe they just all had a massive aneurysm at the same instant! Pretty improbable, but it could happen, right? Or maybe they made a suicide pact. What if they're not dead at all, but just in a state of advanced metabolic slowdown? These are all excellent explanations, yes?
Except that absurd explanations like that MAKE THE LEFT LOOK LIKE CHILDREN.
And not just children. Stupid children. I'm suddenly reminded of the attempted suicide bombing at Glasgow Airport and the bright star on the Left who immediately replied "Oh whoopee, a traffic accident". That plays well with normal people. 
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thwap
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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I've thought about it. You don't say "kill all the pirates." You say "Kill all the pirates when they're engaged in piracy."
Is that it?
Again I ask: What is your point????????????
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bshmr
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Senor Magoo wrote: | ... Except that absurd explanations like that MAKE THE LEFT LOOK LIKE CHILDREN.
And not just children. Stupid children. I'm suddenly reminded of the attempted suicide bombing at Glasgow Airport and the bright star on the Left who immediately replied "Oh whoopee, a traffic accident". That plays well with normal people. |
You introduced the Israeli-style explanations, not I. <G> To repeat, I vaguely recall some audio that had the pirates seeking cover, and that area being more or less attacked without knowledge of where the hostages were, etc. |
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abnormal
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| Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| Senor Magoo wrote: | | That's as moronic as saying "Your Honour, I was just minding my own business assaulting a guy when he started the problem by fighting back!" |
Absolutely. It was his fault. He hit me back first!! |
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Senor Magoo
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Family with children held
| Quote: | | Mohamed said that any attack against the pirates would result in the deaths of the hostages, and he referred to the killings last week of four American hostages captured by pirates on their yacht. |
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thwap
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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So what should we do about this pirate problem Magoo?
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Senor Magoo
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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I don't have a magic bullet, but looking at it as a problem is a good start.
If you want to get into systemic issues, I'd suggest that Somalia's total lack of a government is a bigger problem than overfishing. Remember when the cod stocks dropped down east? And how Canadian fishermen weren't forced to hit the high seas with guns in order to live?
I'm not sure how to go about promoting a return to rule of law, however. The various warlords and their pirate navy seem content enough, and if the general populace isn't eager for a government, it's a sure bet that the local strongman isn't either.
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thwap
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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The Somalians were beginning to rebuild some form of gov't with their religious courts, but the USA destroyed it again.
For the record Magoo, I don't disagree that the pirates aren't brutal. I agree that the pirates are brutal. That's why i called what happened to Somalia "brutalization."
But to post accounts of their brutality is just as useless an exercise as posting links to accounts of African-American criminal behaviour, or Latin American drug cartel violence, or the Misogyny of Arab societies.
That sort of behaviour will get you link love from small dead animals or five feet of fury, but progressives will wonder if you're racist or something.
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Rufus Polson
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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Well, from the Somalians' point of view, the piracy is kind of like a violent form of taxation/duty on regional shipping (combined with some degree of regulation of foreign fishing and waste dumping activities), with a minimum of bureaucratic layers between the revenue gains and the local economy. They're certainly not going to get upset about it.
And indeed, without a government it's the only way they are going to get those services or that revenue. If a government ever forms other than through foreign occupation, it's probably going to have to include the pirates--take 'em legit and turn them into coast guard. There's plenty of precedent: All the torturers and criminals in South Africa, Chile, Guatemala and so forth got amnesty when the regime changed. And of course back in the old days, pirates or bandits deciding to settle down was basically how governments formed . . . |
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Senor Magoo
He's got a big one
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But to post accounts of their brutality is just as useless an exercise as posting links to accounts of African-American criminal behaviour, or Latin American drug cartel violence, or the Misogyny of Arab societies. |
I won't be posting that they just boarded a Malaysian trawler or anything like that, but given the talk about them a year or two ago (specifically: they're just going after fishing and dumping, they just want the ransom and don't hurt anyone, etc.) I thought it was worth noting that they seem to have amped it up some. Now it looks like any vessel is fair game, regardless of whether it has anything to do with overfishing or illegal dumping, and now it looks like they're willing to harm people, including what I'm going to call "civilians" (not a representative of a foreign military or a foreign corporation). I think that's worth some note.
| Quote: | | They're certainly not going to get upset about it. |
Heck, maybe they even prefer it. How many drug dealers would prefer it if drug dealing were legitimized? They could charge way less, pay taxes, deal with their employee's union, pay for insurance... my guess is that on a referendum to address legalizing drugs, they'd be voting "No".
Certainly if enough Somalians are happy enough with things as they are, that might explain the lack of a government for so long.
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thwap
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 4564
Location: Hamilton
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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Yes. But the fact that the whole thing started as a way of Somalians fighting back against the world and has descended into murderous chaos is already addressed by my statement about brutalization.
The problem is really the West. We need to rebuild their economy and give them something other than piracy to depend upon.
Just the same way that African-American crime (which relatively speaking is less than White-American crime levels) isn't going to be addressed with more cops, harsher sentences, and admonitions to "just say no."
Just like Latin America's cocaine trade isn't going to stopped by traditional methods and counter-insurgency.
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Rufus Polson
Purple Library Guy
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 3483
Location: SFU and/or the college of Riddlemastery at Caithnard
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Senor Magoo wrote: |
| Quote: | | They're certainly not going to get upset about it. |
Heck, maybe they even prefer it. How many drug dealers would prefer it if drug dealing were legitimized? |
Let me dig out the grammar and logical parallel structure of this a bit. OK, so the parallel you draw is "drug dealers" and their attitude towards "drug dealing", which I would intuitively expect would be a parallel with "pirates" and their attitude towards "piracy". This accompanies that "they" would "even prefer it", in answer to what I said about "they". But my "they" was clearly referring back to "Somalians" from my previous sentence as one would grammatically expect, not to, say, "pirates" which hadn't appeared as a subject in the paragraph.
So did you really mean to create the equation "All Somalians are pirates" in your little comment there? Or do you just have problems parsing sentences? |
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Senor Magoo
He's got a big one
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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My choices are "racist" or "illiterate"? 
I just wasn't really reading all that closely. I get that most Somalians aren't pirates.
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Vundo Draxon
Leftist-rightie and rightist-leftie
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1712
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| thwap wrote: |
The problem is really the West. We need to rebuild their economy and give them something other than piracy to depend upon. |
And while we're there, we can give them democracy too. What could go wrong?
Am I the only person who thinks that complaining at great length about imperialism and then turning around and suggesting that their economy is our problem is a little bit disingenuous? Or is it only ok for us to intervene when it comes at a huge net cost to us and they can have complete control while we write the cheques?
I don't disagree that the west isn't being helpful. But I would be inclined to believe that less interference in their affairs would be the way to go on that. Unless we've changed our mind about imperialism and white man's burden...
Now, when it comes to the pirate problem, that becomes the west's business when it's western ships getting hijacked (a problem that will occur less often if we are better at keeping our fishing/dumping ships away from their waters, as mentioned in my butt-out proposal above). For this problem I would suggest refusing to pay ransom even if some hostages get killed and it is very expensive to defend every boat with arms. Don't kill the pirates until they actually attack. Then, if they do, respond in kind. The Barbary coast was never made safe by caving into pirates' demands. |
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thwap
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 4564
Location: Hamilton
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:03 am Post subject: |
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Vundo,
What specific problem do you have with the idea that since the USA (and the Soviet Union if we want to be fair and i most assuredly do) did so much work to UTTERLY DESTROY Somalia, that they have an obligation to rebuild it?
Basically you're saying that we should attack the symptom of piracy while allowing the rest of the people (who no doubt obtain some benefit, as relatives and friends, from the pirates' income) to fester.
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Rufus Polson
Purple Library Guy
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 3483
Location: SFU and/or the college of Riddlemastery at Caithnard
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, I kind of take his point. I didn't agree with the "You broke it, you bought it" thesis in Iraq and I don't think I agree with it here either. What the US should do is keep their noses the hell out of it, stop blocking local attempts to put something together, stop sponsoring neighbours to invade etc. etc., ideally make their megacorporations not meddle as well, and wait until the locals in fact put together some kind of government. Then, they can give that government a bunch of money in restitution for their sins.
Go in and rebuild? Nuh uh. They would find some way of actually making things worse. And then they wouldn't be able to resist installing an oppressive puppet government. |
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thwap
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 4564
Location: Hamilton
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| Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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I here you Rufus, but trust me, by "rebuild" I mean a much more hands-off policy.
When you break something at pottery barn, you don't get to tell the owner to switch to a supplier of your choice and to charge you much less from then on, and to give you a share of the store's earnings forever, the way the USA imagines is the case when they "bought" Iraq after they broke it.
I have no idea if that sentence is coherent or not.
Bye for now ...
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