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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 5570
Location: Winnipeg
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 Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:56 pm Post subject: Asper To Buy Out Blue Bombers? |
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He's hoping to do so:
| Quote: | CanWest Global executive David Asper made his play for the Winnipeg Blue Bombers, proposing to help finance a new stadium in exchange for control of the CFL franchise.
Asper, executive vice-president of CanWest Global Communications and a former Blue Bombers board member, presented his proposal to the club's board of directors in a one-hour meeting Sunday afternoon.
Under the proposal, Asper would contribute a total of $65 million, including $40 million toward building a $120-million new stadium. Asper would also commit to spending $25 million to develop retail projects near the facility.
In return, Asper said he would create a new private corporation would be created to control the football team. The stadium, meanwhile, would remain a public property.
"I think I'm coming to the table here with a viable plan, a business plan," Asper told reporters outside the meeting Sunday. He described his meeting with the board as "upbeat and positive."
The rest of the money for the stadium would come from the provincial and federal governments.
The proposed stadium, which would be partially covered and have up to 40,000 permanent seats, would be built near the 54-year-old Canad Inns Stadium in Winnipeg's St. James area.
Asper said he would have it built in two phases, so as not to disrupt the 2007 football season. He would like the new stadium to be built by June 2008, in time for that year's new football season.
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The Blue Bombers team has been community owned for 77 years, and is currently run by a non-profit organization managed by a board of directors.
Asper was co-chair of the successful 2006 Grey Cup festival in the city.
When the Bombers were in financial trouble five years ago with a $5.4-million in debt and declining attendance, Asper helped bail the team out.
He first made his intentions about investing in the team known in September.
The Blue Bombers board will take several weeks to discuss Asper's proposal. While there is no indication so far as to whether the board will accept it, chairman Ken Hildahl said Sunday that he is pleased with Asper's overall vision for the club — even if that vision puts the club into the hands of a private owner. |
Nice to know that the leaders in the Capital City have their priorities straight, eh? We all know that the Blue Bombers are more important than such trivialties as affordable housing, street repair, transit upgrades, and funding community groups.  $40 million would also come from the feds and the province, under this proposal. Hey Sammy, didn't you rip up an agreement with the feds and the province to provide funding for rapid transit? How much would that have cost? Would it have cost more than this Blue Bomber deal Asper is pushing?
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DTA
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 694
Location: ////
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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I would rather see them remain community owned and I do not really want to see the Bombers play in a place called "Global Stadium" either.
| Quote: | | Blue Bombers are more important than such trivialities as affordable housing, street repair, transit upgrades, and funding community groups |
That seems to be the feeling in a lot of places that have whiny Sport Franchise owners.
What is more unbelievable is how people get revved up if their team threatens to move if they do not get a new stadium and demands public money to build it.
Public money should not go to Sports Franchises period. If the owner has the money to buy the team, the owner should fund the bill. Some franchises cost hundreds of millions. So if they can not see they need a new stadium/arena before they buy the team then do not buy the team if you can not afford a new stadium/arena and threaten to blackmail tax payers with the team to help you build a new stadium.
The same thing is going on in Seattle now with the NBA's sonics threatening to move if the city does not build them a new arena...
GM place here was built solely with private money unlike that crappy balloon that popped last week sitting across the street.. |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 5570
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Canadian wrote: | | What is more unbelievable is how people get revved up if their team threatens to move if they do not get a new stadium and demands public money to build it. |
I was just thinking the other day about this very thing. It seems more and more that any major sports team has little connection to the city bearing its name other than playing out of a building in that city. Many players have no connection whatsoever to the community, and the sports teams are increasingly owned by private interests who would relocate the team in a second if it benefitted them. The reason the province of Quebec lost its 2 professional sports teams is that the government there wouldn't play that game.
Not long ago, there was public money being spent to keep the Jets in Winnipeg while health services were being cut back in this province. Personally, I like having sports teams represent the areas in which I live, but I don't approve of public money being spent that way.
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Hephaestion
Deeply Shallow
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 24243
Location: Where the Wild Things Are...
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Canadian wrote: | | What is more unbelievable is how people get revved up if their team threatens to move if they do not get a new stadium and demands public money to build it. |
| DSquared wrote: | | Not long ago, there was public money being spent to keep the Jets in Winnipeg while health services were being cut back in this province. Personally, I like having sports teams represent the areas in which I live, but I don't approve of public money being spent that way. |
I was *just* thinking about the Jets (or "the Yets", as I used to call them, in honour of their Scandinavian heritage)...
As I recall it, there was also a *substantial* backlash against the concept of one penny in public funds going into paying the backmail demanded by the Jets' owners. Granted, those people didn't have "unbiased" mouthpieces like the Free Press and CBC Winnipeg onside, but they were still there, and they constituted a rather sizable minority, despite the slavish attention and publicity they didn't receive.
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"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 5570
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| Hephaestion wrote: | | As I recall it, there was also a *substantial* backlash against the concept of one penny in public funds going into paying the backmail demanded by the Jets' owners. |
Blackmail? My understanding is that the team had been in serious financial trouble for a long time.
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Hephaestion
Deeply Shallow
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 24243
Location: Where the Wild Things Are...
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:45 am Post subject: |
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Well, what else would you call a demand that basically consisted of: "Pay up or we'll pull the team outta here", if not "blackmail"?
Does "extortion" sound better?
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"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 5570
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:57 am Post subject: |
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Yes, I would accept that definition, however I don't think my original question was addressed. Simply put, we were led to believe that the Jets were in serious financial trouble at the point they left, and that they had been for a long time. Were the Jets really in trouble, or were we misled?
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This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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Hephaestion
Deeply Shallow
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 24243
Location: Where the Wild Things Are...
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:09 am Post subject: |
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They may actually have been in trouble -- I dunno. But I thought these guys were all "free market" exponents, right? Supply 'n demand, market forces, and all that? (I've noticed that most of the players seem to be *just* as bad as the owners, that way; hardly a single lefty in the bunch.)
Well, if the team can't make a go of it, move it, I say. WTH should public funds be going to support a bunch of millionaires at the same time as social programs are being cut? And then there's Keith Tkachuk (sp?) calling people "ungrateful whiners" and saying that we are LUCKY to have players of his calibre gracing our 'burg. Where is he now? Regardless, fuck him, and screw the blackmail.
Bye bye, Jets...
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"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin |
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sparqui
Dog tired
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 5152
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| Hephaestion wrote: | | WTH should public funds be going to support a bunch of millionaires at the same time as social programs are being cut? |
EXACTLY. What I don't get with the Blue Bombers is the fact that their coffers are full after a very successful Grey Cup hosting gig. At least that is what was reported. So why the need for a new owner and new stadium? Fuck, Winnipeg just hosted the so-called premiere event with current facilities and it was called a magnificent event. So why is Asper all of a sudden interested? And why would the club want to change? It seems to me that it's another greedy grab if anything and that the real estate opportunity of building a new complex is what is driving the deal.
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 5570
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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Tom Broadbeck, of all people, offer some sage advice:
| Quote: | The real story here is who gets access to the real estate opportunities around the stadium. No new stadium or facility upgrade proposal will work without capitalizing on the retail and hospitality opportunities that now exist for the Bombers.
The club negotiated a deal with the city a few years ago that not only gives them full access to the stadium for 50 years rent-free, it also gives the team exclusive access to develop the city-owned land around the stadium. Asper wants to inherit that agreement.
Who wouldn't? That's where the money is.
Asper knows that. He was on the Bomber board when it was negotiated.
Now he would like to invest $25 million of his own money into the real estate part of that deal, for a pretty good return on his investment. Which would be outstanding for the city. Winnipeg needs that kind of private capital.
The part that is not so great for taxpayers is having to pony up $80 million for a brand-new stadium, which is more than twice the amount of public money that went into the MTS Centre. It's a lot of money.
Fortunately, there are alternatives. One of them is right on the Bombers website -- a proposed redevelopment of the existing stadium into a first-class facility with more comfortable seating for fans. With the right real estate development around the stadium to help pay for it, it's an idea that could fly with minimal taxpayer exposure.
Granted, the redevelopment proposal is just at the idea stage. But it would cost far less than $120 million to do and it would be a much more realistic price tag for a CFL franchise.
Let's face it, there isn't a lot of money to be made in the CFL. It's barely viable.
And as much fun as it would be to blow $80 million on a stadium the team can't afford, it's simply not good stewardship of scarce public dollars. Especially when there are so many other pressing capital projects in this city, including the Floodway expansion, the city's combined sewer upgrade and our decrepit roads and highways.
Let's refurbish the stadium and develop the surrounding area to make the team a viable operation. But let's keep taxpayers' money out of it as much as possible. |
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This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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Hephaestion
Deeply Shallow
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 24243
Location: Where the Wild Things Are...
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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Silly question, I know, since it's about a Winnipeg Sun columnist, but who is Tom Broadbeck, some kinda rabid right-whiner... er... winger?
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"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin |
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Diane Demorney
Bazinga!
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 4746
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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I read that Tom Brodbeck column yesterday, and knew he was being sarcastic:
Real world: You can't build free buildings
| Quote: | By TOM BRODBECK
What blows me away is how easy it is to convince some people that government can build free buildings.
Now I understand why premier Gary Doer is so popular in this province.
About half of you thought I was serious in yesterday's column about how taxpayers can put $80 million into a new football stadium and get all of their money back in six years.
Some of you even congratulated me on admitting I was wrong after realizing that yes, taxpayers can build free buildings.
Sorry to break it to you but no, taxpayers can't build free buildings. And when David Asper -- who's proposing to build a new stadium for the Blue Bombers -- and Doer claim they can by giving taxpayers back their $80 million in six years, they're screwing with you. |
He has such a hate-on for the Doer government, there was no way he would ever say they were right.
more at link.
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Scissors cuts paper. Paper covers rock. Rock crushes lizard. Lizard poisons Spock. Spock smashes scissors. Scissors decapitates lizard. Lizard eats paper. Paper disproves Spock. Spock vaporizes rock. And as it always has, rock crushes scissors. |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 5570
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:11 am Post subject: |
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Anybody following the latest on this topic? Apparently there are now 2 possible sites for a new Bomber stadium, one where they currently are (which means bye-bye community ownership) or another near St. Boniface (apparently backed by local councillor Dan Vandal). Anybody know where we can find more about this online?
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This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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Reverend Blair
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 2255
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | WTH should public funds be going to support a bunch of millionaires at the same time as social programs are being cut? |
Funny thing about bread and circuses. It's a concept the Romans peoneered. When the Roman emperors ran out of money for bread, they kept the circuses going. It worked, at least for a while.
Let Asper buy the Bombers, but don't give him a cent of public money. Not for a stadium, not for anything.
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He was a wise man who invented beer.
--Plato |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 5570
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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Bombers go for Asper:
| Quote: | It's first and goal in a drive by the Winnipeg Blue Bombers to score a new stadium.
The organization that owns the Canadian Football League club announced Tuesday it is now negotiating exclusively with David Asper to hammer out a deal for a new home.
Ken Hildahl, chairman of the Winnipeg Football Club's board of directors, said he is optimistic an agreement can be reached with Creswin Properties Ltd., which is owned by the businessman.
"This is a major milestone in the process and we will now start negotiating a binding letter of intent with Creswin," Hildahl said.
"We are looking forward to working with David Asper and his team and are optimistic and confident an agreement can be achieved that will achieve the club's objective of ensuring the long-term viability of the football club and the Blue Bomber legacy." |
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This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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Reverend Blair
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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[sarcasm]Yeah, I have no problem with my tax dollars going to subsidize the Asper family.[/sarcasm]
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He was a wise man who invented beer.
--Plato |
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sparqui
Dog tired
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 5152
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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I'm no sports fan but I was impressed by the fact that the football team was community owned.
Asper wants majority control for his "investment" while the anticipated tax payer investment gets squat (except for the all those so-called economic benefits yada yada yada). It's not hard to imagine Asper selling the team for a profit and then having new owners crying for more public funding and threatening to pull the team (similar to the revolving ownership door of the Ottawa Rough Riders). Meanwhile, more bread and circuses with McFadden announcing that he will bring back the Jets.
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 5570
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Fait accompli:
| Quote: | The Winnipeg Blue Bombers, a community-owned entity for 77 years, is being transferred to media tycoon David Asper, the team announced Friday.
The Winnipeg Football Club's board of directors voted unanimously to transfer ownership of the team to Asper and his company, Creswin Properties. |
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This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 5570
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:15 am Post subject: |
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Doer's ready to talk about the stadium
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This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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sparqui
Dog tired
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 5152
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:39 am Post subject: |
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Sad news. I don't like football but I always thought it was great that the Bombers were community owned. And it seems to me that the current stadium is working fine. They hosted a very successful Grey Cup last year so I see no need for new facilities.
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-- Gilles Duceppe |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 5570
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:30 am Post subject: |
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Asper's made some changes in response to public opposition to project:
| Quote: | David Asper's plan to build a new $145-million stadium and retail complex just got a lot more interesting. Mr. Asper says he's prepared to add a $1.8 million inflatable roof at his own cost so the stadium can be used year round by other sports groups and recreational associations.
Instead of a facility that hosted just 10 or 12 professional football games and a few other events every year, a domed stadium would provide an all-season sports venue, increasing both its profitability and its viability. It also blocks interference being run by those who believe it is ludicrous to spend so much public money on a facility that would be idle most of the year.
Mr. Asper wants the federal and provincial governments to each pony up $40 million for the new stadium, while he would contribute $40 million, plus another $25 million for an attached retail complex. In return, he gets the team and the stadium. The province has not fully committed to the project yet, but it seems ready to play ball. The main stumbling block is federal Treasury Board President Vic Toews, who thinks Winnipeg has more pressing concerns. That kind of thinking, if it was applied in the past, would have meant that Winnipeg would never have had a new downtown arena, no Esplanade Riel, no Assiniboine Park; in fact, no amenity of any kind until every pothole and sewer was fixed. |
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This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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sparqui
Dog tired
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 5152
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:47 am Post subject: |
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So Asper puts in 1/3 of the $$$$ for the stadium (I'm not factoring the retail outlet) and expects 51% equity ownership in the team and stadium. In the private sector, his equity ownership would only be 33 1/3%. Why does the taxpayer have to subsidize his majority ownership position?
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“If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a tractor.”
-- Gilles Duceppe |
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TS.
Delicious schadenfreude
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 14585
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:16 am Post subject: |
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Because we live in a capitalist utopia?
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"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 5570
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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The Freep claims that support for Asper's vision has grown:
| Quote: | The provincewide survey done by Probe Research Inc. found 49 per cent of those canvassed said they were "strongly" (22 per cent) or at least "moderately" (27 per cent) in favour of having some public money go toward paying for the proposed $147-million home for the Winnipeg Blue Bombers and adjacent shopping complex.
When the same question was asked just before Christmas, only 43 per cent of respondents said they favoured tax money going toward the project.
The results of the random sampling of 1,000 Manitoba adults are accurate to within plus or minus 3.1 percentage points.
Probe Research president Scott MacKay said the poll shows the public is following the stadium debate and that the momentum has shifted. |
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This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 5570
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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Asper pitches Point Douglas stadium idea:
| Quote: | Winnipeg businessman David Asper and representatives of the Point Douglas Residents' Committee met behind closed doors Sunday to discuss the possibility of building a football stadium in the inner-city community.
Committee head Sel Burrows said he was shocked to find out that Point Douglas was a possible site for a new stadium.
"We were quite upset that we hadn't been consulted," he said, adding that the group wants to make sure any plans for a stadium have a positive impact on the community, Burrows said. |
Why are they asking for our tax dollars and conducting "secret" meetings?
And if you think that's bad, check this out:
| Quote: | The city of Winnipeg is considering giving the green light to a proposal for a water park in the Polo Park area, according to a document released Monday at city hall.
A report added Monday to the agenda for next week's executive policy committee meeting indicates the city's department of planning, property and development recommends going ahead with the proposal by the Canad Inns hotel chain.
...
The project would cost $56 million, with more than three-quarters of the money paying for the water park. The city and province each would contribute $7 million.
The facility would be built on land owned by Canad Inns.
The report says the entire project would boost city coffers by $900,000 per year through property, business and hotel taxes.
To receive the city funding, Canad Inns would have to enter into an agreement to provide public access to the park and $700,000 worth of in-kind services and reduced admissions for 25 years. |
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This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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sparqui
Dog tired
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 5152
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:18 am Post subject: |
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I really hate these ponzi PPPs schemes. Why are taxpayers subsidizing Asper?
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 5570
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| sparqui wrote: | | I really hate these ponzi PPPs schemes. Why are taxpayers subsidizing Asper? |
Don't forget Ledehowski! 
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This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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No Yards
Glutton for Punishment
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 2944
Location: Toronto Ontario
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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What's to worry about? That's the same kind of "deal" we were given for the SkyDome and it worked out perfectly (ie. private interests were given the building and the taxpayer was left to take the loss ... which obviously was the plan in the first place.)
Why would the Bombers need a new stadium? Do they think it will attract an NFL team? Oh, wait, that's a Paul Godfrey wet dream ... I keep mixing up my corrupt backroom "public tax dollar welfare kings".
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I follow, but more importantly, respect the Golden Rule. I fully and completely respect your right to be 'done on to' as you would 'do on to' others. |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 5570
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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One thing I did hear was to fix up the stadium at the U of M and let the Bobmers play there, as it is a public facility that would be well used.
There's also the nagging question of what to do with the current stadium location.
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This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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sparqui
Dog tired
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 5152
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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You would think that the current stadium would work fine given that it was used to host the Grey Cup successfully only three short years ago.
I really don't care where they drop the damn stadium (as long as it's environmentally friendly). What I do care about is tax dollars subsidizing private interests. The short term economic stimulus (construction) doesn't necessarily offset the investment with public funds. As for taxes made from tourism dollars and/or revitalization of the downtown core, it certainly hasn't produced much in the cases of the MTS centre.
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 5570
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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New Stadium as urban renewal more fantasy than fact (emphasis mine):
| Quote: | Building new professional sports facilities with public money to revitalize urban centres is not a new strategy. Those in favour of public funding for such projects argue that the positive economic spinoffs and new development that occur around the new facilities beneft all community members, therefore the government should fnancially contribute to the projects.
Unfortunately, research shows little evidence that new sports facilities generate any signifcant economic benefts beyond the initial construction project. Money that is spent at these new facilities generally comes at the expense of other entertainment options in a city, resulting in little or no net increase in jobs or economic activity after being built. Despite developers’ claims, large arenas and stadia have consistently failed to generate any meaningful sort of urban revitalization. Studies of the two best-case scenarios that have used stadia for neighbourhood revitalization (Baltimore’s Camden Yards and the Gateway in Cleveland) show that the cost per job created is very high and that these neighbourhoods did not grow any faster than surrounding areas. Overall, there is very little evidence to support the argument that a new stadium would result in any meaningful long-term economic benefts for Winnipeg or revitalization of the neighbourhood of South Point Douglas. Similar arguments could be made for Asper’s private leisure facility and retail complex, which will likely do all they can to capture the dollars of its visitors, leaving little to no external benefts for existing downtown businesses.
This redevelopment project is being marketed as urban renewal and comes affxed with many bells and whistles to gain public support. Winnipeggers need to question the credibility of our various levels of government when it comes to these claims and following up on these popular additions that are often added on to these mega projects to make them more palatable to a skeptical public. Waverley West, for example, was sold to the public by including many environmentally friendly features, many of which are now defunct, and the MTS centre has fell well short of the claims that it would revitalized Portage Avenue, which continues to be beset by business closures and vacancies. |
Will the city take the property by force?
| Quote: | | Expropriation is the last resort of a government that wants to take over private land — but the word has surfaced at Winnipeg City Hall as discussions continue about a proposed waterfront stadium complex in the Point Douglas area. |
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sparqui
Dog tired
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
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Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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CBC Radio interviewed an economist from UQAM and he panned the whole proposal as being a cash grab for the owner (Asper) and a losing proposition for the tax payer. He debunked every single positive that has been used by proponents, one by one.
He said you revitalize an area by improving infrastructure, schools and community facilities that benefit the people living there. There wasn't a single thing he said that I didn't agree with. As he said, if the Bombers feel like they need a new stadium, they should raise ticket prices and let the fans pay for it.
Funny thing is that if they raised the prices, the stadium would probably be empty. So much for the need for a bigger facility.
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| sparqui wrote: | CBC Radio interviewed an economist from UQAM and he panned the whole proposal as being a cash grab for the owner (Asper) and a losing proposition for the tax payer. He debunked every single positive that has been used by proponents, one by one.
He said you revitalize an area by improving infrastructure, schools and community facilities that benefit the people living there. There wasn't a single thing he said that I didn't agree with. As he said, if the Bombers feel like they need a new stadium, they should raise ticket prices and let the fans pay for it.
Funny thing is that if they raised the prices, the stadium would probably be empty. So much for the need for a bigger facility. |
What worries me is that expropriation is now being discussed. It's one thing to propose an idea, but it's frightening that Asper could be using that as a lever to grab control of the stadium.
Never mind that the infrastructure in the area is a mess without the stadium. Is that what it has to come to? How many regular season home games to the Bombers play? Why don't we build that many at various points in the city for the Bombers to rotate their games? We'd at least get some decent roads and rapid transit then.
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sparqui
Dog tired
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:42 am Post subject: |
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The expropriation of property to build a private facility is really a piss off. I hope the neighbourhood puts up a fight and that Winnipeggers in general see this as the sham it is.
My experience with Ottawa and rotating private owners of their CFL team is that as soon as the profits dry up, the owner sells the franchise. Absolutely zero return on investment when the team leaves town.
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:11 am Post subject: |
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Learn from Edmonton, academic advises:
| Quote: | After Edmonton's city council had agreed to the development of the West Edmonton Mall -- then the largest shopping mall in the world -- the city's leaders watched in dismay as the commercial heart of the city declined in the face of suburban competitive pressures.
With empty buildings sprouting downtown, city council desperately sought some way to restore life to the city centre. At that point, Triple Five Corp., the developer of the West Edmonton Mall, offered a solution to the problem its mall had created: the development of a downtown mall, to be called the Eaton Centre. |
City funds a type of rapid transit...you will soon be able to rapidly transport yourself through some plastic tubing:
| Quote: | Winnipeg city council has approved a $7-million subsidy for a new indoor waterpark.
Canad Inns is building the park as part of the expansion of its hotel near Polo Park. In return for the subsidy, the city will get reduced admission to the waterpark for low-income families. |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:54 am Post subject: |
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Asper courts University of Manitoba:
| Quote: | | Winnipeg businessman David Asper has made yet another pitch for a new stadium for the CFL's Blue Bombers — this time at the University of Manitoba. |
Hey, at least this is a public facility that gets plenty of use and isn't sitting idle when the Bombers aren't playing. We'll see how this goes.
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:40 am Post subject: |
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Feds now on board:
| Quote: | Treasury Board Minister Vic Toews signalled Thursday the federal government is poised to provide $15 million to the proposed $150-million project.
The proposal to build a 30,000-seat stadium at the University of Manitoba is being quarterbacked by Asper, executive vice-president of CanWest Global Communications.
Toews said the project meets the federal government's game plan for infrastructure funds.
"I am convinced … that the level of planning for the project is sufficiently advanced that we can authorize the money and have the project going in very short order in terms of shovels in the ground," Toews told CBC News. |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
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| Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 12:53 am Post subject: |
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It's official:
| Quote: | The Winnipeg Blue Bombers will soon have a new owner and a new stadium, covered by an inflatable dome in winter.
The new stadium, which will have 30,000 permanent seats but be able to accommodate 45,000, will be built on an eight-hectare site at Chancellor Matheson Drive and University Crescent on the University of Manitoba campus.
In addition to the stadium, the site will feature a multiplex athletic facility for the university and its sports teams. It will include a refurbished university stadium and new fitness centre.
The deal, which has yet to be finalized, was announced at a press conference Thursday morning. It will give Winnipeg businessman David Asper ownership of the team in one year, when construction of the stadium begins, ultimately shifting the community-owned team to private ownership. |
Asper's also taking over the current stadium site in order to build more retail space in the Polo Park area where traffic congestion apparently isn't bad enough already. Maybe with the stadium relocation it might put more pressure on the city to complete the BRT line to the U of M? Always got to look for the good, I suppose.
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DSquared
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| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| sparqui wrote: | | My experience with Ottawa and rotating private owners of their CFL team is that as soon as the profits dry up, the owner sells the franchise. Absolutely zero return on investment when the team leaves town. |
Funny you should mention that sparqui:
| Quote: | Ottawa residents squeezed their way into the packed council chambers — some of them wearing old Renegades jerseys — in order to have their say in Ottawa's stadium debate Monday.
Councillors are to vote Wednesday on the future of the two stadium proposals put before them by developers hoping to bring professional sports teams to the capital.
One proposal is to build a professional soccer stadium in Kanata and the other proposal is to rejuvenate Lansdowne Park by building a football stadium where Frank Clair Stadium now stands. |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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Waterpark idea goes down the drain:
| Quote: | The hospitality company has notified the city that it is no longer able to proceed with the project, according to a news release issued by the City of Winnipeg on Tuesday.
The city, however, is still interested in finding a company to build the attraction and intends to reissue an expression of interest with respect to the design, construction and operation of an indoor water park. The news release states the city is still committed to the project, for which it believes there is still a strong public demand.
When it put out the initial call last year, the city said it would contribute up to $7 million toward the development of a privately owned and operated facility.
...
The company's proposal included 100 new rooms for the existing Canad Inns hotel at Polo Park, and a 66,000-square-foot indoor water park that would include a wave pool, lazy river, family whirlpool, adult whirlpool, children's activity pool, inner-tube slides, water roller-coaster, bowl waterslide and surf ride.
There was no explanation provided in Tuesday's news release as to why the company is not in a position to move forward on the park. |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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More on the stadium debate:
| Quote: | As for this fan, here’s what ‘yours truly’ would like to see in a new stadium:
1. A comfortable seat.
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2. A short wait for concessions.
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3. A variety of concessions.
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4. A full building |
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This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
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| Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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Asper to be punted?
| Quote: | Premier Greg Selinger said Wednesday officials are now looking at a "Plan B" that would see the redevelopment of the Canad Inns Stadium site by investors other than Asper. Property tax revenue from the redeveloped site would go toward paying for the construction of the new stadium.
"The original conception of the arrangement was for the private partner, contingent upon them wanting to own the team, to be a major financial contributor," Selinger said during question period.
"There is also a Plan B option structured into the original agreement. The Plan B option allowed for the existing site where the stadium exists, which yields no tax revenue, to be opened up for redevelopment and private investment will go into that site which will generate revenues to help pay for the stadium. |
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sparqui
Dog tired
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| Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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Good. Asper should be punted and the team should remain community owned.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:30 am Post subject: |
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Council to tackle stadium proposal?
| Quote: | Opposition councillors at city hall have vowed to prevent the stadium deal from reaching the floor of city council on Wednesday morning, meaning the fate of the $190-million deal to complete the new venue is once again in doubt.
At least 11 out of 16 members of city council must agree to suspend council’s rules tomorrow morning to allow a stadium development plan to be debated at council. This afternoon, six councillors signed a letter to council speaker Grant Nordman (St. Charles), warning they will not do that – which means the stadium plan will be short at least one vote.
In the letter, Couns. Ross Eadie (Mynarski), Jenny Gerbasi (Fort Rouge), John Orlikow (River Heights), Mike Pagtakhan (Point Douglas), Harvey Smith (Daniel McIntyre) and Russ Wyatt (Transcona) say they will not allow the stadium report to be walked on to council because the stadium project is now financed entirely by public funds and there was no public consultation about the changes.
Gerbasi, who said she supported the deal on Monday, now said she now has concerns about the viability of residential redevelopment in Polo Park, given that city zoning rules governing land near Richardson International Airport prohibit the practice.
Both she and Wyatt said they do not wish to vote with "a gun to their heads," a reference to Katz’s suggestion the $190-million price guarantee expires Wednesday. |
On Monday, Gerbasi got a positive article in, of all places, the Winnipeg Sun. Strange times.
Particularly noteworthy is that the province is taking on a larger share of the funding. Of course, with 1 year before an election in which stadium costs will certainly be an issue, that fact is just a coincidence.
Bloody media! Why were we not having this discussion three months ago before the civic election? Same with the Free Press series about the barren lands parking lots that are serving as a blight on the downtown.
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sparqui
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:35 am Post subject: |
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Asper is out of the equation and that makes me happyl Glad to see the football club community owned. (Still think that the location at U of M sucks.)
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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The Sam strikes back:
| Quote: | Winnipeg Mayor Sam Katz has called a special meeting to counter a move by six councillors to block the stadium financing deal from being added to the council agenda as a late item.
Couns. Russ Wyatt, Ross Eadie, Jenny Gerbasi, Harvey Smith, Mike Pagtakhan and John Orlikow signed a letter to the council's speaker saying the proposed deal — requiring them to contribute $12.5 million, plus grants to the stadium construction — should not be walked on to the floor of Wednesday's council meeting.
Councillors must approve a motion to add the late item to the agenda before voting on whether to put up the money.
"We believe that the city must undertake citywide public consultation prior to this important vote," the letter states.
Under city rules, two-thirds of the 16-member city council must agree to allow the deal to be put up for a vote. If the six dissenting councillors stick to their guns, council will not be allowed to vote on the deal. |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:18 am Post subject: |
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Can we please order some backbone for city council?
| Quote: | The nearly unanimous 14-2 council vote came less than 24 hours after a report outlining the city's role in the multimillion-dollar deal was publicly released.
The Government of Manitoba is putting up the bulk of the capital for the stadium, $85 million of which will be in the form of a loan to the Winnipeg Football Club, which is the managing entity of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers. The club will have 44 years to repay the money.
When the current stadium site at Polo Park is ultimately redeveloped, money that is collected by the city in property taxes — about $75 million — will be repaid to the province.
The football club unanimously approved the deal during a meeting late Monday afternoon, and officials at the U of M followed suit Tuesday. |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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Creswin payout raises questions:
| Quote: | Coun. Russ Wyatt (Transcona) was one of two councillors who voted against the stadium proposal approved last week.
He said Monday he wonders why the Creswin payout forms part of the deal, saying it smacks of unfairness to other businesses.
"Why are we paying for anything?," he asked. "If you try and start a business and your business fails, can you go to the government and ask them for monies that you expended to try and get your business up and operating? |
Asper speaks out:
| Quote: | In an emailed statement to media outlets, the CEO of Creswin Properties Ltd. thanks and praises Winnipeg football fans who have supported efforts to see a new stadium rise in the city.
However, he doesn't address why neither he nor Creswin are not part of a $190 million stadium-financing arrangement recently pitched and approved by the province, the football team, the University of Manitoba and the City of Winnipeg.
Nor does Asper talk about a controversial $4-million payout Creswin is receiving for work it had done on previous efforts to get a stadium built. |
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This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:01 am Post subject: |
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More information about the stadium, please excuse the source:
| Quote: | And after The Black Rod revealed the true cost had climbed as high as $190 million--for material alone.
And after Asper's construction company said we were just trying to sabotage the project with such inflammatory numbers.
...
The deal would cost $115 million and Asper promised to cover all construction overruns before taking over as the new private owner of the football club.
It turned out every word was a lie. |
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This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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sparqui
Dog tired
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Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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The fact that Asper is walking away with $4 million is a piss off and completely unprofessional.
We develop proposals for all sorts of projects and none of the money from the project budgets pays for our costs for developing and submitting proposals (retroactive payments are verbotten). And it sucks worse when the project is rejected. But that is the cost of doing business.
Makes me wonder how many property developers pull this kind of sh*t - skim from project revenues to retroactively pay their proposal and sales pitch costs.
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