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No Yards Glutton for Punishment

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 2944 Location: Toronto Ontario
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Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:28 am Post subject: Amanda Knox found guilty |
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http://www.canada.com/news/student+Amanda+Knox+convicted+Italy+murd...
Now, I have no opinion one way or the other on the guilt or innocence of this girl, but I do have an opinion of how the US media is playing the story.
They are condemning the whole Italian justice system as being unfair and not capable of providing a fair trail (maybe they'd be happier if the Italians shipped her off to a secret prison in Malta and held her without a trial?)
They even had the gall to condemn the Italian media for crowding around the family and yelling questions at them as they left the court after the verdict (yeah, the fucking USA media are criticizing the Italian media for being too "paparazzish" )
At least, unlike what would happen in the USA, there will be an automatic appeal process, and it is very likely that even if the appeal fails there will be a reduction in the sentence ... and of course, this girl will eventually get out of prison to resume her life, unlike the USA where she would stand a decent chance of being put to death instead of just a "life" (29 years I believe in Italy, minus the appeal reduction, minus good behavious, etc.) _________________ I follow, but more importantly, respect the Golden Rule. I fully and completely respect your right to be 'done on to' as you would 'do on to' others. |
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voice of the damned Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 6136 Location: slandered, libeled
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Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Could you cite some specific examples of this drumbeating in the American media? I'm not neccessarily doubting you, it's just that I haven't really gotten the impression that this story is all THAT high-profile down there, or that a lot of people really care about it either way. |
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voice of the damned Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 6136 Location: slandered, libeled
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Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | At least, unlike what would happen in the USA, there will be an automatic appeal process |
Well, according to a google that I've just been doing on the words "automatic appeal", at least some states in the US do have an automatic appeal.
| Quote: | While the jury recommended execution, a judge will formally sentence Martin on Jan. 9.
Under Florida law, the defense will get an automatic appeal.
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And, at least CBS has mentioned that Italy will grant an automatic appeal to Amanda Knox...
| Quote: | There is an automatic appeal, but that process could take as long as two years, Pizzey said.
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Not sure if other outlets are reporting this.
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sandy47 Fulltime enMasse Member

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 289 Location: London, ON.
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Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| voice of the damned wrote: | | Could you cite some specific examples of this drumbeating in the American media? I'm not neccessarily doubting you, it's just that I haven't really gotten the impression that this story is all THAT high-profile down there, or that a lot of people really care about it either way. |
Last night's[Friday's] 20/20 was pretty dismissive of the Italian process and had a stable of experts in international law - American of course - to pooh-pooh the findings of the court and to condemn the actual formation of the court itself - two judges and six townspeople.
Overall the program's tone was poor naive American teenager, who, according to her heartbroken family couldn't possibly have harmed anyone, railroaded by highly questionable and in some cases, downright incompetent foreign jurisprudence. It was Imperial exceptionalism extant.
I do remember thinking "at least they're not going to kill her, so if she's innocent" . . . |
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voice of the damned Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 6136 Location: slandered, libeled
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Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Overall the program's tone was poor naive American teenager, who, according to her heartbroken family couldn't possibly have harmed anyone, railroaded by highly questionable and in some cases, downright incompetent foreign jurisprudence. It was Imperial exceptionalism extant.
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Thanks for that. 20/20 has always been excpetionally bad, I've found.
I mostly follow American media via the print edition of the IHT(global edition of the NYT), and MSNBC, neither of which seemed to be giving the story much prominence until the verdict came down. I'd be curious to know what other outlets are saying. |
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No Yards Glutton for Punishment

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 2944 Location: Toronto Ontario
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Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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CNN Anderson Cooper 360 had a similar themed show last night discussing the verdict .... over the last year I've seen several instances where the news / opinion shows have discussed this issue, and in almost every one of them the theme of the story was also how backwards and unfair the legal system of Italy was (and not once have I ever seen a single commentator make a single comparison to the "legal" system of the USA and the atrocities committed within their own "legal" system.
Keep an eye out the next several days for interviews with the Knox family ... I've seen probably four of them myself since the verdict late yesterday.
Now, there's nothing wrong with the family believing her innocence, and wanting to go to the media to tell their story, that's normal, but for the media to give a convicted murder's family that platform is quite unusual .. I can't think of another case where the media went this far in accommodating a convicted murder's side of the story ... usually they go with the victims family ... I'm sure there have been other cases, but only cases where the media has decided to take sides, which in this case is what they seem to have decided to do as well.
P.S. I could be wrong, but I believe automatic appeals are only for death sentences in the USA ... had Amanda received a life sentence in the USA she would been able to apply for an appeal, but not necessarily given one. _________________ I follow, but more importantly, respect the Golden Rule. I fully and completely respect your right to be 'done on to' as you would 'do on to' others. |
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anne cameron Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 3078 Location: tahsis, british columbia
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Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Wasn't there an enormous media foo foo rah over whether or not a British nanny had been responsible/culpable in the death of a toddler?
I'm fuzzy on it but it seems to me the nanny was widely presented as being guilty from the get-go, even before the trial.
And my failing memory suggests that, in the end, the nanny was released and returned to Britain...
but the coverage was a half step away from a lynch mob. |
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voice of the damned Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 6136 Location: slandered, libeled
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Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | P.S. I could be wrong, but I believe automatic appeals are only for death sentences in the USA ... |
Well, at least accoriding to this law firm's website...
| Quote: | Automatic Right To Appeal
In the majority of states across the nation, a convicted person must submit a request to ask the court of appeals to hear his or her appellate case. Wisconsin law provides an automatic right to appeal for anyone who has been convicted of a state felony or misdemeanor offense. Wisconsin's "automatic right to appeal" removes the appeals application process from the appellate process. However, it does not remove the timelines.
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So, I assume that would be ANY felony or misdemeanor in the state of Wisconsin, not just capital crimes. I don't know about other states. |
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Hephaestion Deeply Shallow

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 24243 Location: Where the Wild Things Are...
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Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Well, here's another case for the US media to go nuts over:
Four 4 US teens held for attempted murder in Japan
| Quote: | Japanese police said on Saturday that they arrested four children of US military personnel on suspicion of attempted murder after a woman crashed her moped when it hit a rope that was stretched across the road.
The 23-year-old suffered a fractured skull after being thrown from her bike near western Tokyo's US Yokota Air Base on August 13.
The woman later told police she saw four foreigners shortly before the incident, according to local media.
The Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department arrested the four -- three boys and one girl aged between 15 and 18 -- when the US military handed them over, said a spokesman for the police department.
[...]
Jiji Press, quoting police sources, reported that all the four suspects admitted the allegations but insisted that they did not think they could be charged with attempted murder. |
_________________ "The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin |
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No Yards Glutton for Punishment

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 2944 Location: Toronto Ontario
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Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| voice of the damned wrote: | | Quote: | | P.S. I could be wrong, but I believe automatic appeals are only for death sentences in the USA ... |
Well, at least accoriding to this law firm's website...
| Quote: | Automatic Right To Appeal
In the majority of states across the nation, a convicted person must submit a request to ask the court of appeals to hear his or her appellate case. Wisconsin law provides an automatic right to appeal for anyone who has been convicted of a state felony or misdemeanor offense. Wisconsin's "automatic right to appeal" removes the appeals application process from the appellate process. However, it does not remove the timelines.
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So, I assume that would be ANY felony or misdemeanor in the state of Wisconsin, not just capital crimes. I don't know about other states. |
There are a lot of states in the USA, so I can accept that at least one of them would have a legal system that is as advanced in terms of appeal processes as is Italy.
In general though, the US legal system is the most barbaric of "1st world" legal systems. _________________ I follow, but more importantly, respect the Golden Rule. I fully and completely respect your right to be 'done on to' as you would 'do on to' others. |
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Senor Magoo He's got a big one

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 8700
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Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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As vaguely interesting as this trial and verdict were, I was more interested in the guilty verdict for Nicola Puddicombe, who was accused of murdering her boyfriend along with her lover, Ashleigh Pechaluk. What makes that one fascinating is that while it seems to be accepted fact that the two of them discussed and planned the killing, and while one might think that two people in the grip of a bit of a folie a deux would both participate in some way, Pechaluk was acquitted while Puddicombe got 25 years.
Let's just imagine that they both planned and participated in some degree. How bad would it burn to be looking at the next quarter century in the pokey while your accomplice walks? Yowtch. _________________ ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, |
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