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elmateo
sleepy.
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 4978
Location: socialist corner, ottawa
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 Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| The police repression started this morning - many people are hurt and reports of dead supporters of Zelaya. |
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TS.
Delicious schadenfreude
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 14585
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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During the attack on Zelaya's supporters, two tear gas cannisters also entered the compound of the Brazilian embassy, which may well cause further tensions with Brazil since it is a violation of Brazilian territorial integrity within their embassy compound.
_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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elmateo
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Posts: 4978
Location: socialist corner, ottawa
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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The Frente Nacional Contra el Golpe de Estado has a 'twitter' (where are all the 'thats so cool!' news reports like in Iran?) - reporting that the Chochi Sosa stadium in Tegucigalpa has been turned into a large prison for the arrested protestors.
http://contraelgolpedeestadohn.blogspot.com/ |
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TS.
Delicious schadenfreude
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 14585
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| elmateo wrote: | The Frente Nacional Contra el Golpe de Estado has a 'twitter' (where are all the 'thats so cool!' news reports like in Iran?) - reporting that the Chochi Sosa stadium in Tegucigalpa has been turned into a large prison for the arrested protestors.
http://contraelgolpedeestadohn.blogspot.com/ |
Reminds me of the events in the days after the Pinochet coup in Chile.
_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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elmateo
sleepy.
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 4978
Location: socialist corner, ottawa
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| Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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A frightening new use of sonic violence, making the connection between what has happened in Pittsburgh and Honduras: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/09/sonic-warfare-erupts-in-pit... .
We have very few ethical constructions around non-physical violence. This leads to the possibility to employ sonic violence against others to silence them and drive them insane. |
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Tehanu
More or less, more or less
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 17637
Location: Seceded from the Ford Nation
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| Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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The current Honduran leaders are giving Brazil a 10-day deadline to do something with Zelaya, who is still in their embassy. Or what? "Additional measures." Beyond continued harassment?
| Quote: | ... The government of President Roberto Micheletti, who has been in charge since a June 28 coup that deposed Zelaya, said Sunday it will take "additional measures" if Brazil does not define Zelaya's status.
... The Micheletti government did not specify what actions it is considering if Brazil does not act. In the past, the government has said it has no plans to raid the embassy in the Honduran capital of Tegucigalpa.
Zelaya has called on his followers to oppose the Micheletti administration, which vows to arrest him on charges of treason and abuse of authority for repeatedly ignoring court orders to drop plans for a referendum on rewriting the constitution. But the government has suggested he could be allowed to leave if some country offers him political asylum.
... On Tuesday, baton-wielding soldiers used tear gas and water cannons to chase away thousands of Zelaya supporters gathered outside the embassy in Tegucigalpa.
Since then, the mission has been surrounded by police and soldiers. Zelaya and about 65 supporters inside accused authorities of temporarily cutting off water and electricity early in the week, and later said the government released an unidentified gas that caused headaches, nosebleeds and nausea.
... On Friday, the UN Security Council issued a statement that "called upon the de facto government of Honduras to cease harassing the Brazilian Embassy." |
CBC. |
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elmateo
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Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 4978
Location: socialist corner, ottawa
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:18 am Post subject: |
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Further gas attacks?
Lula has my favourite quote of the day/week:
"Brazil will not comply with an ultimatum from a government of coup-mongers"
The Canadian response has been:
"We don't necessarily agree with coups, but as long as you keep the mines open we don't necessarily not agree with coups"
Other news is also this:
| Quote: | Amid the ongoing political crisis in the central American country, the government issued a decree on Sunday allowing it to suspend freedom of speech, ban protests and suspend media groups because of "disturbances of the peace" since a June coup that toppled Zelaya, officials announced on Sunday.
Oscar Matute, the de facto interior minister, said media that "incite violence" should be regulated under the decree. |
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2009/09/2009927231332764...
I do not know why the CBC pays Connie Watson to be a foreign correspondent for Latin America but their reporting about the coup has been the AP story, which seems to be the same base story rewritten with the addition of the latest sentence. The CBC then buries this news item on their website. I'm not sure if it is an editor's decision for political reasons, a 'lack of interest', or a poor understanding of why this story is fundamentally important. All three points are frightening though. A coup is a coup is a coup. If this stands, and other coups take place as a result, we will definitely see an analysis that bemoans Latin America's 'tendency' to resort to coups cyclically. Disregarding how elite-driven coups are enabled and that along every step of the way ordinary citizens valiently through untold stories tried to defend 'democracy'. Coups have nothing to do with "Latin American culture", rather they have everything to do with political-elite culture. The same people who own the news papers and send their children to the US for school - so when you have the AP namelessly doing 'journalism' by scouring the local newspapers and talking to expats now living in the US you will only get the one story. It is shameful, but as always there is no accountability in the media. |
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Hephaestion
Deeply Shallow
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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Location: Where the Wild Things Are...
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:01 am Post subject: |
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All good points, elmateo -- you should write a letter to the CBC editor (and "cc" it to the CBC Ombudsman) detailing your concerns. Who knows -- it might actually do some good.
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"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin |
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elmateo
sleepy.
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 4978
Location: socialist corner, ottawa
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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The Canadian government has been absolutely silent - Minister of State for the Americas Peter Kent made his last statement on Sept. 22, which was a reiteration of the canned statement he has made on a few occasions when given permission by Harper to speak. Minister Kent has no other responsibilities except for the Americas - and this is the most important hemispheric issue at the moment.
But it is not just the Conservatives, it is the NDP and Liberals as well. I've tried to contact both parties and received nothing back.
Canada has normally a backwater understanding of the hemisphere, leaving ti to the US, despite pretences at being 'internationalists'. However I think as a country, general attitudes and knowledge about the world are regressing . |
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Rufus Polson
Purple Library Guy
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 3483
Location: SFU and/or the college of Riddlemastery at Caithnard
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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So in this Counterpunch article
http://www.counterpunch.org/carlsen09282009.html
it talks about the chemical attacks, and mentions
| Quote: | A press conference was called to reveal the results of the analysis of the gas, done by public health specialist Dr. Mauricio Castellanos.
* Concentrations above normal of amonia, which is used as a base of pepper gas
* Concentration between 100 and 200 particles per thousand {maybe they meant to have "of" in here? Rufus}
* Hydrocyanic acid, which produces a rapid reaction on inhaling when it enters in contact with the iron in the blood, and produces vertigo, nausea, stomach pain, headaches and breathing difficulties
The report concluded, "This mixture is technologically purely military, prohibited under international treaties. Exposure for a prolonged period is lethal to any living organism." |
Lethal? OK, so this isn't just harassment. This is chemical warfare. So it's an atrocity. Less grotesque than that but of considerable practical importance, isn't using lethal force against an embassy an act of war against the country involved? I mean, this isn't like the US bombing everyone's embassy while they're creaming a city, where you can say "Oops! Didn't mean to do that!"--it's an act of lethal force *directed* against the embassy and its personnel, including, you know, the ambassador.
Atrocity aside, is it really that smart for Honduras to be trying to kill the Brazilian ambassador with chemical weapons? Brazil is kind of a much bigger country than Honduras.
It is an atrocity though. Imagine if Iran did something like this. Say because that guy who was in the election was hiding from authorities in the Saudi embassy. Would the world be largely ignoring it? |
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Tehanu
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 17637
Location: Seceded from the Ford Nation
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| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:46 am Post subject: |
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The two sides have been negotiating an agreement based on a proposal by Costa Rica's president. Negotiations are good ... especially is violence can be avoided. Especially if they go somewhere.
Deal ...
| Quote: | The opposing factions in the political standoff in Honduras appear to have reached a compromise on the return to power of deposed president Manuel Zelaya.
Interim President Roberto Micheletti's office released a statement saying only that no definitive agreement had yet been reached and that talks would continue Thursday.
But Victor Meza, a negotiator for Zelaya, said Wednesday the two sides have agreed on wording, but he did not say whether it means Zelaya will be allowed to return to office to finish his term, which runs out in January.
... Negotiators have said they have agreed on all other points in the pact, first proposed by Costa Rican President Oscar Arias. |
or no deal?
| Quote: | A negotiator for de facto Honduran President Roberto Micheletti said that no deal was reached between the two opposed sides Wednesday, as other government officials had reported.
Ninety percent of an agreement to end the country's ongoing political crisis has been reached, Micheletti negotiator Vilma Morales said at a news conference Wednesday, but some key points remained to be worked out.
... His statement followed remarks by Zelaya negotiator Victor Meza, who said an agreement had been reached on the point of Zelaya's demand to be restored to the presidency, according to local reports.
... The reason behind the two sides' contradictory claims was not immediately clear.
The most recent talks between representatives of Zelaya and Micheletti began this week following a visit from a delegation from the Organization of American States.
The OAS visit marked the first time the two sides sat down for direct discussions since August, and the first since Zelaya sneaked back into Honduras last month. |
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Hephaestion
Deeply Shallow
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 24243
Location: Where the Wild Things Are...
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Honduran coup in webcomic form
| Quote: | Nikal sez,
| Quote: | | I wanted to draw your attention to a short webcomic history of the ongoing crisis in Honduras. The comic puts the current situation in historical context and offers an interpretation of how the current de facto government has its roots in the US-Honduras relationship. We believe our comic is artfully drawn, informative, and innovative in its treatment and explanation of the crisis. The authors are Dan Archer, a comix journalist and instructor at Stanford University, and Nikil Saval, a PhD candidate in English at Stanford University and an assistant editor at n+1 magazine. |
The interface for this slideshow is diabolical (a "next" button would be useful!), but it's still a great and informative read. |
_________________
"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin |
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Tehanu
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
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Location: Seceded from the Ford Nation
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:59 am Post subject: |
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Zelaya and Micheletti have signed the plan to return Zelaya to power for the remainder of his term. Which is scheduled to end November 29.
But The Nation is not overly optimistic about that actually taking place, although they give a list of reasons in the article why it would be at least symbolically extremely important ...
| Quote: | The Honduran crisis may soon be over. Maybe. The leader of the coup government, Roberto Micheletti, agreed to a nine-point plan to end the country's political impasse, brokered by Thomas Shannon, the former US Assistant Secretary of State for Western Hemisphere Affairs and Barack Obama's yet-to-be-confirmed ambassador to Brazil. The deal would return Manuel Zelaya, the democratically elected president deposed in a military coup four months ago, to office; in exchange, the international community will end Honduras' diplomatic isolation and recognize upcoming presidential elections, scheduled for November 29.
Hardliners in the coup government, however, see a loophole in the accords, which gives the Honduran National Congress the power to approve or reject Zelaya's return. And no sooner was the ink dry on the accord when a top Micheletti advisor, Marcia Facusse de Villeda, told Bloomberg News that "Zelaya won't be restored." In a barefaced admission that the coup government was trying to buy time, Facusse said that "just by signing this agreement we already have the recognition of the international community for the elections." Another Micheletti aide, Arturo Corrales, said that since the congress is not in session, no vote on the agreement could be scheduled until "after the elections."
... The accord leaves unresolved the issue of whether the widespread human rights violations that have taken place since the coup will be investigated and prosecuted, only vaguely rejecting an amnesty for "political crimes" and calling for the establishment of a truth commission. More than a dozen Zelaya supporters have been executed over the last four months. Security forces have illegally detained nearly 10,000 people; police and soldiers have beaten protesters and gang-raped women. And the very idea of a negotiated solution to the crisis grants legitimacy to those provoked it.
Still, if Zelaya were to be restored to the presidency, even just symbolically, to preside over the November elections and supervise a transfer of power to its winner, it would represent a significant victory for progressive forces in the hemisphere. Here's why ... [rest at link] |
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elmateo
sleepy.
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 4978
Location: socialist corner, ottawa
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:16 am Post subject: |
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What Canadians, foreigners should focus on is not the deal but their own countries' governments actions during this coup. Its easy for us here to criticize the deal reached that hopefully will bring Zelaya back to presidency. From what I have heard from the resistance and civil society in Honduras is not the same pessimism about the deal as is being commented on by global north 'activists' and allies. Yes the deal was not great, nothing in this situation would ever have been great and still has many hurdles. International pressure has to keep it moving forward. And solidarity has to be extremely careful to focus on the words and actions of the resistance as the guide for how to respond.
The resistance issued a statement of hope and action. In Honduras the resistance is not facing a fight that is completely outside of their influence anymore, and it certainly hasn't gotten worse. If the resistance grew as strong as it did under the repression, certainly in part because of the repression and unconstitutionality of the coup government's actions, they have every reason to be optimistic that they can turn everything they have learned and developed into some sort of transition of Honduran society.
I believe this is Greg Grandin's analysis in the Nation - to serve as a reminder that these struggles do not stop here and our attention should not give way. Canada in particular has a lot to answer for in its weak approach to this coup. |
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Tehanu
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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I agree. Our government was (not very surprisingly) excruciatingly complacent about this coup.
And as predicted, looks like the agreement is getting stalled already. In this case, the Honduran Congress has asked the Supreme Court and attorney general for a non-binding opinion before ratifying it. Pretty transparent.
| Quote: | Honduran lawmakers on Tuesday put off a vote on whether to restore ousted President Manuel Zelaya and asked the Supreme Court for its view, bucking outside pressure to quickly end a four-month political crisis.
... A board of 13 top lawmakers met and decided not to call a special session of Congress, currently in recess, until they receive nonbinding opinions from the Supreme Court and the attorney general.
No timeline was established for a vote, throwing fresh uncertainty over how quickly a crisis agreement signed last week could break the deadlock over Zelaya's ouster.
... Zelaya says he must be returned this week to comply with the deal. But the accord set no date for a congressional vote and the de facto government of Roberto Micheletti says the deal could be fulfilled even without Zelaya's reinstatement.
... Outside the legislature, police in riot gear stood by as supporters of Zelaya, known as "Mel," chanted, "Hang in there Mel, the people are with you." |
Reuters. |
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Tehanu
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Location: Seceded from the Ford Nation
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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So much for dealing with the coup aftermath. In the presidential election, looks like the right has won. Shit.
| Quote: | Porfirio "Pepe" Lobo Sosa, who claimed victory in controversial post-coup presidential elections in Honduras, is a wealthy farmer who once flirted with Commmunism and lost to deposed President Manuel Zelaya in 2005.
The 61-year-old conservative, known for his wide grin, now faces the task of convincing the world of the validity of the electoral process that bought him to power under an isolated de facto regime.
He also needs to survive a tricky transition period, with Congress due to vote on Zelaya's brief reinstatement on Wednesday. Zelaya's term expires on January 27.
... Lobo was once labelled a leftist by rivals following his studies in communist Moscow in the 1980s, and his critics claimed he might follow Zelaya's lead and seek support from Venezuelan leftist president. Hugo Chávez.
But Lobo, who also studied in the United States, now belongs to the country's most Right-wing party.
... Lobo lost by just 73,000 votes to Zelaya in 2005 presidential elections and supported the military-backed coup which overthrew him, like most of the political class here. |
Telegraph UK. |
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bshmr
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 4003
Location: Central USA, Earth
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I read some stuff that alluded to total votes relative to past elections as well as the lack of significant international acceptance of the election results. |
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TS.
Delicious schadenfreude
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 14585
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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I doubt any governments in the Americas other than the US, Canada and perhaps Colombia will recognize the results of these elections.
_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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Senor Magoo
He's got a big one
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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If there are allegations of electoral corruption, perhaps Venezuela should investigate.
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TS.
Delicious schadenfreude
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 14585
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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Are you going to suggest the US would be a better party to investigate? The same country where Katharine Harris, the Republican Secretary of State for Florida, directed the removal of 20,000 largely black voters from the rolls because their names were similar to those of convicted felons, thus handing the election to Bush?
_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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Senor Magoo
He's got a big one
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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No, I wasn't going to say that.
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elmateo
sleepy.
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 4978
Location: socialist corner, ottawa
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| Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Want to cite a credible observer organization that felt that Venezuela serious has electoral problems? Or are you making shit up?
Meanwhile, there are no internationally recognized observers for Honduras' elections. There was a group of 300 right-wing Floridians.
Abstention numbers are likely in truth between 55 and 60%, lower if you include a high 6-7% nulled votes.
The biggest winner in Honduras was no-one, figuratively and literally. Lobos was expected to win, particularly after the Liberal Party candidate was marred in scandal over his support for the coup - splitting many in the party. Lobos was (strategically) less in favour of the coup.
But Honduras, politically structured by the US, has no non-elite political parties and up till the coup even lacked a non-elite political movement. That has changed. |
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Senor Magoo
He's got a big one
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 8700
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Want to cite a credible observer organization that felt that Venezuela serious has electoral problems? Or are you making shit up? |
Yes, I lovingly painted that so-called "photograph" myself to give the impression of Chavez using his office to electioneer at ballot stations and thereby discredit Chavez.
I trust that if Stephen Harper did the same, and no "credible observer organization" announced that Canada had serious electoral problems, you'd be OK with it, right? We wouldn't hear a peep out of you, yes?
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elmateo
sleepy.
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Posts: 4978
Location: socialist corner, ottawa
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| A coup has just stepped closer to legitimacy and you are taking little shin-kicks at people. What is the relevance of what say again Magoo? Why don't you employ your logic elsewhere? Or does Latin America = Chavez for you and you find yourself incapable of thinking about anything else? I find it hugely discriminatory that you attempt to make every post here on Latin America about Chavez, as if any issue from the South where they speak Spanish has some relevant baring to Chavez. Sometimes a coup-election is a coup-election and does not need your fantastical 'analogies'. That is the shit you are making up. A polite person would pick it up and dispose of it. |
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Senor Magoo
He's got a big one
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Posts: 8700
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Or does Latin America = Chavez for you and you find yourself incapable of thinking about anything else? I find it hugely discriminatory that you attempt to make every post here on Latin America about Chavez, as if any issue from the South where they speak Spanish has some relevant baring to Chavez. |
The article Tehanu linked seems to suffer from the same pathology of somehow having to mention him. Anyway, just responding to the allegation of electoral tinkering , now that that's a bad thing. Plus I just love that picture, with those little Hugo military berets over the "a". Electoral manipulation has never been so cute!
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Hephaestion
Deeply Shallow
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Location: Where the Wild Things Are...
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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I blame Jack Layton. 
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"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin |
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ronb
mocker
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Location: Blackroof country, no gold pavement, tired starling
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Well remember, Chavez didn't come to power democratically, he is a dictator. And he was never a victim of a US sponsored coup, the US never does that in Latin America, because context and history are irrelevant, only what the US media says about Latin America is relevant. |
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Rufus Polson
Purple Library Guy
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Posts: 3483
Location: SFU and/or the college of Riddlemastery at Caithnard
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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As usual,
www.borev.net
is a good place to go for current coverage. As they say,
| Quote: | | We'll keep you posted through the day, with all the quality you've come to expect from a half-assed hobby blog thousands of miles away from the action, so CONSTANTLY HIT REFRESH! |
One article he links to mentions some of the official policy statements about the election:
| Quote: | The Gaceta Oficial, (“Official Gazette”) of the Honduras coup regime is now freshly printed and has three new decrees and two orders restricting freedom of the press, the right to bear arms and officially strips Catholic Father Andres Tamayo of his Honduran citizenship, ordering him expelled from the country
. . .
Decree PCM-M-030-2009
This decree declares a “State of Emergency” nationwide, and places the regime’s “Secretary of State” inside the military command to oversee all activities related to the November 29 “elections.” This decree pretty much erases the previous order that the quasi-independent Supreme Electoral Tribunal would exclusively be in command of the Armed Forces in the month prior to the “election.”
. . .
Executive Order 124-2009 authorizes the coup regime's media regulating organization CONATEL to close any media at will. |
And indeed, in other news the last major anti-coup media outlets were shut down a couple weeks before the election.
Which brings us to Magoo and his cute picture. I'm not completely clear about what it's a picture of, exactly--is it a polling station? Maybe, but elections in Venezuela are pretty computerized, so I have some doubts. Might be one of those things they had set up a few years ago for validating signatures on the recall petition, or for people to confirm they were on the electoral rolls, or something. All I can tell for sure is that it's some sort of sign-up sheet or check-what's-here sheet. For all I know it has nothing to do with elections at all. Maybe it does. If so, sure, someone shouldn't have done that. Whatever.
But the general facts about elections in Venezuela are clear, and indicate that yes, Venezuela would be an excellent candidate to investigate any irregularities. Venezuela's elections have repeatedly been validated by international observers as free and fair, their electronic system includes a paper trail, and they always audit the vote, recounting 55% of the paper ballots. By law if there are people still waiting they keep the polls open so people can vote. Two elections ago the opposition seemed to have a plan where they'd ask the electoral commission for all kinds of stuff and then boycott the elections when they didn't get it. What made them look silly was that the electoral commission gave them everything they wanted and then, lacking any other plan, they boycotted the elections anyway. In short, Venezuela does elections the way the US citizenry dream they might be done, let alone Honduras. |
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elmateo
sleepy.
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Posts: 4978
Location: socialist corner, ottawa
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| Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Senor Magoo wrote: | | Quote: | | Or does Latin America = Chavez for you and you find yourself incapable of thinking about anything else? I find it hugely discriminatory that you attempt to make every post here on Latin America about Chavez, as if any issue from the South where they speak Spanish has some relevant baring to Chavez. |
The article Tehanu linked seems to suffer from the same pathology of somehow having to mention him. |
I'm glad you put yourself in the same category as The Telegraph UK when it comes to pathologies of stupidity. If you notice, they followed your same stupid attempt to suggest that everything relates to Chavez - either you are with him or you are against him - when we talk about Latin America. Negating that what is happening in Venezuela is not owned by Chavez, but the broad-based popular support for the Venezuelan Socialist Party. Negating that socialist movements in other countries exist not to elect the Venezuelan leader or fight Venezuelan elites but rather to bring to power people from their own country, to respond to their own issues and concerns. Negating that Chavez is brought up as a spectre by international capital to legitimize authoritarian coups, rather than by popular social movements as their own model. Thus Chavez is a constructed foil of those who are attempting to create a climate of illegitimacy of every single Latin American socialist movement, including that of Venezuela.
Your little attempt to make congruent the resistance to the coup in Honduras and some issue you have with the Venezuelan electoral process emerges from nothing that was posted in this thread, it even does not 'logically follow' from the article posted by Tehanu. Your pathology seems to also extend to some radical conditioning where you go rabid at the mere sight of the words "Chavez" "Venezuela" or "Hugo", with zero capacity to make any relevance. |
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Senor Magoo
He's got a big one
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 8700
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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This is "rabid"?
Did you maybe mean to type "rabbit"??
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ronb
mocker
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 2627
Location: Blackroof country, no gold pavement, tired starling
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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elmateo
sleepy.
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 4978
Location: socialist corner, ottawa
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Very apt ronb. |
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Rufus Polson
Purple Library Guy
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 3483
Location: SFU and/or the college of Riddlemastery at Caithnard
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Well, at the risk of involving a connection to Venezuela and causing the discussion to once again derail stupidly, I have a link to an article from Venezuelanalysis:
Elections in Honduras: Whitewashing a Path to a Past of Horrors
| Quote: | I came to Honduras to participate as a human rights observer of the electoral climate in a delegation organized by the Quixote Center. Several delegations converged, connecting some 30 U.S. citizens with dozens more from Canada, Europe and Latin America. In the days prior to the elections we scattered to different cities, towns and villages, meeting with fishermen, farmers, maquila workers, labor leaders, teachers and lawyers, as well as those who were jailed for carrying spray paint, hospitalized for being shot in the head by the military, and detained for reporting on the repression.
. . .
In each of the many corners of the country visited by the 70-plus international observers, we witnessed the fear, repression, intimidation, bribery and outright brutality of the government security forces
. . .
The first person I thought of as I awoke on election day was Wilmer Rivero, a fisherman in a small town with the big name of Puerto Grande. I kept thinking of the fear in his eyes as he relayed how the police have been visiting his house and asking for him, ever since he trekked 6 days on foot to greet a returning President Zelaya. Each local mayor has been asked to put together a list of resistance leaders, and his name was one of 22 from his town. {my bold} We suggested to Wilmer that he not sleep at home during the electoral days. He called the next day to thank us for our advise. The police had ransacked his home, and that of many of his neighbors, the night before elections, threatening his life. But, he wondered, what will he do now? |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 5570
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:32 am Post subject: |
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The Real News Network exposes election fraud
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This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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DSquared
aka Aristotleded24
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 5570
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:07 am Post subject: |
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Update on the resistance
_________________
This is pre-eminently the time, to speak the truth, the whole truth, frankly and boldly. Let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself-Franklin Delano Roosevelt |
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