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TS.
Delicious schadenfreude
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 14585
Location: Toronto, ON
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 Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 5:51 am Post subject: Roh Moo-Hyun Dead at 62 |
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Former South Korean president Roh Moo-Hyun has killed himself by jumping from a cliff near his home, in the wake of a corruption scandal.
| Quote: | Former President Roh Moo-hyun of South Korea, whose reputation as an upstanding political leader had been tarnished recently by a corruption scandal, committed suicide on Saturday by jumping off a cliff near his retirement home, according to his aides and the police.
Mr. Roh, 62, died while he was hiking on a hill in Bongha, a village near the southeast corner of South Korea, Moon Jae-in, Mr. Roh’s former presidential chief of staff, said during a news conference. He left a brief will for his family, Mr. Moon said.
Mr. Roh suffered fatal head injuries and was declared dead in a hospital in Pusan, the largest regional city, said Park Chan-jo, a police officer. Mr. Roh was accompanied by a bodyguard during his morning hike.
President Lee Myung-bak, Mr. Roh’s successor, found the news “difficult to believe,” his office said.
Mr. Roh, who had prided himself on being a clean politician during his term from 2003 to 2008, was questioned for 10 hours on April 30 by state prosecutors over his alleged involvement in a corruption scandal that has already landed some of his relatives and aides in jail.
“I can’t look you in the face because of shame,” Mr. Roh told reporters before he presented himself for questioning by prosecutors in Seoul, who had accused him of taking $6 million in bribes from a businessman while in office. “I apologize for disappointing the people.”
In his last posting on his Web site, on April 22, he wrote, “You should now discard me.”
He added: “I no longer symbolize the values you pursue. I am no longer qualified to speak for such things as democracy, progressiveness and justice.” |
New York Times
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"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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voice of the damned
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 6149
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 10:59 am Post subject: |
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I didn't despise him as much as a lot of people seemed to(I think he ended his term with something like a 10% approval rating).
Like Papandreous in Greece, he rode into office on a wave of anti-American sentiment, but never made any significant changes to the US-Korea relationship. If you can imagine Carolyn Parrish's rhetoric and Paul Martin's policies combined into one politician, you've got Roh Moo Hyun.
On the domestic front, he talked a good line about eliminating some of the more repressive laws left over from the dictatorship years, but never actually got around to repealing Article 7 of the National Security Act(which is not quite a dead-letter law, though few people are actually imprisoned under it anymore), or recognizing the rights of conscientious objectors.
The only complete reform I can recall him and his party making was the abolition of the hoju, the family registration system that the old-line Confucians liked, but feminists did not(this reform was not in fact very controversial). I think he tried to make the univeristy system more egalitarian, but I don't know all the details on that.
He did manage to survive an impeachment, which made his right-wing interrogators rather unpopular, and they ended up getting trounced in the following rounds of parliamentary elections.
A photo I like...
That's Roh with Hines Ward, an American football player of mixed Korean and African-American heritage. Ward's trip to Korea was viewed by many as a symbolic event in terms of Korea's cultural development.
Anyway, RIP. |
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voice of the damned
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 11:14 am Post subject: |
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About the hoju...
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Last edited by voice of the damned on Sun May 24, 2009 12:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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voice of the damned
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 6149
Location: slandered, libeled
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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A translation of the suicide note...
| Quote: | I am indebted to so many people.
A lot of people have suffered because of me.
I can’t fathom their suffering more in the future.
The rest of my life will only be a burden.
I can’t do anything because of my poor health. I can’t even read or write anything.
Don’t be too sad. Life and death are both a part of nature.
Don’t be sorry. Don’t hold grudges against anyone. It’s fate. Cremate me and erect a small gravestone near my home. I’ve thought about this for a long time.
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voice of the damned
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 6149
Location: slandered, libeled
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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Some more background...
| Quote: | Roh Moo-hyun was born on Aug. 6, 1946 in Gimhae, South Gyeongsang Province. His parents were farmers and it is well-known Roh did not have the financial wherewithal for a higher education. Nevertheless he excelled in school and graduated from a vocational high school.
His childhood hero was U.S. President Abraham Lincoln. And like his idol, Roh duplicated Lincoln's feat of becoming a lawyer despite never having attended university. Passing the notoriously difficult Korean bar exam in 1975, Roh set forth on his legal career by landing a judgeship in Daejeon.
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As I recall, Roh's humble origins and lack of univeristy education were a bit of an issue when he ran for president.
| Quote: | He grew quickly tired of the judiciary and left in 1978 to start a lucrative practice as Busan-based tax attorney. A career as a wealthy lawyer lay ahead for the young Roh. Photos at the time depict the former president enjoying yacht rides off the Busan harbor and his life seemed destined for prosperity and comfort.
His destiny dramatically changed in 1981. Roh was asked to defend a student accused of disseminating seditious material criticizing the then militarist regime of Chun Doo-hwan. That student was one of two dozen who were imprisoned and tortured. "When I saw their horrified eyes and missing toenails, my comfortable life as a lawyer came to an end. I became a man determined to make a difference in this world," said Roh in explaining his transformation
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It could be argued that, from a progressive standpoint, he did more good as a lawyer than as a politician. I suspect that sort of thing could be said about a lot of lawyers who go into politics.
| Quote: | Roh's place in history will always be a subject for debate. Some people will always consider him a polarizing figure, a rabble-rouser with an acerbic wit that offended the sensibilities of a Confucian-based society.
However, for the people who believed in him, Nosamo, the 386-generation, his political allies and young netizens inspired by what his presidency represented, Roh's passing will always be remembered as a life that ended much too early. For his supporters, regret over what the former president could have accomplished had he lived will always be a source of remorse.
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Politically speaking, the 386ers are roughly the equivalent of North American baby-boomers, albeit born in the 1960s. They were the people in the 1980s who participated in the democracy movement and whatnot. Nosamo was a pro-Roh activist group.
The Korea Herald |
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F.
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 2578
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | ... the family registration system that the old-line Confucians liked ... |
Is that how they identify themselves, as Confucians? How would you characterize them as a group? |
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voice of the damned
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Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| F. wrote: | | Quote: | | ... the family registration system that the old-line Confucians liked ... |
Is that how they identify themselves, as Confucians? How would you characterize them as a group? |
Well, if you ask most Koreans to describe their society, they'll say, possibly among other things, that it's Confucian. But in my experience the average Korean would not usually use the proper noun "Confucian" to describe him or herself. People might say something like "I believe in Confucianism" or "I think Confucian values have some merit", or whatever.
But yeah, there are groups of scholars etc. dedicated specifically to studying and promoting Confucianism as a value-system. As well, according to wiki anyway, about 0.2% of the South Korean population identifies their religion as "Confucian". I'm not exactly sure what sort of things they do in practice, only that I believe I once attended a Confucian wedding cermemony, at some sort of temple(I'm not even sure if that's the right terminology).
I guess when I said "old-line Confucians", I meant both the people who practice it formally, as well as just average people who want things to remain the way they've supposedly been since time immemorial.
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voice of the damned
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 6149
Location: slandered, libeled
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Some bloggers account of a Korean Confucian wedding.
The pictures look like the one I attended a few years back. The writer mentions that, since Confucianism is not generally regarded as a religion, Roman Catholics(such as this couple) would have no problem supplementing their church wedding with a Confucian one.
That may be true, though I do know that a lot of protestants(which is what Koreans mean when they say "Christian") refrain from bowing to dead ancestors during the twice-a-year ancestral rites(living ancestors are considered okay). I'm not sure if there is anything in the Confucian matrimonial ceremony that would offend protestant notions of purity, but I would imagine a lot of them would have problems with it.
My impression is that most Catholics are okay with bowing to dead ancestors. |
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voice of the damned
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 6149
Location: slandered, libeled
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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Normally I don't regard Kim Jong Il's publicity stunts as anything worth writing home about, but since this one is being discussed in conjunction with the mourning for Roh...
| Quote: | North Korea conducted a nuclear test yesterday, just hours after its state media reported that Kim Jong-il paid condolences to the family of former president Roh Moo-hyun.
Although the two cases are unrelated, many South Koreans were shocked at the timing of the nuclear test, wondering why it had to take place when the nation was in mourning.
"On hearing the news that former President Roh Moo-hyun died in an accident, (I) express profound condolences to widow Kwon Yang-sook and his bereaved family," Kim was quoted as saying by the Korean Central News Agency at 5:57 a.m. yesterday.
Kim's rare tribute led to expectations that a possible delegation from the North sent to pay respects to Roh would improve inter-Korean relations.
However, about six hours later, Pyongyang confirmed that it had "successfully" conducted its second nuclear test, following a warning of retaliation it issued last month after the U.N.'s condemnation of its rocket launch.
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Far be it for me to second-guess the learned elders of The Korea Herald, but I'd be curious to know just how shocked and appalled Koreans really are about this latest test. At least here in Gwangju, most of these North Korean theatrics barely seem to register on the public consciousness.
The Korea Herald |
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F.
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 2578
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | ... since Confucianism is not generally regarded as a religion ... |
That's what I was thinking. I know that Confucius' influence reaches quite far into the social fabric of China and Korea, but I'm surprised to learn that quasi-religious practices have sprung up out of what I always assumed was straightforward philosophy. Like if Nietzche's influence started affecting the way Germans conducted their marriages. Come to think of it, that might be kind of spectacular to witness.
Anyway, thanks for the clarification. |
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voice of the damned
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 6149
Location: slandered, libeled
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | but I'm surprised to learn that quasi-religious practices have sprung up out of what I always assumed was straightforward philosophy |
Yeah, I'm not sure to what extent, if any, Confucian ritual was influenced by pre-exisiting, or at least independenly exisiting, religious practices. Like, if something happened along the lines of what happened when Christianity incorporated pagan spring rites into Easter. It seems probable, especially in regards to things like the ancestral rites and stuff, but I really don't know.
| Quote: | Like if Nietzche's influence started affecting the way Germans conducted their marriages. Come to think of it, that might be kind of spectacular to witness.
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Well, you know, the famous wedding entrance tune(aka Here Comes The Bride) WAS written by Wagner, for one of his folklore-infused operas. So, maybe if the Nazis' attempts at starting a "volkisch" church had ever really taken off, they coulda added a few decontextualized quotes from Also Sprach Zarathustra into the mix.
| Quote: | Bitterness is in the cup even of the best love; thus doth it cause longing for the Superman; thus doth it cause thirst in thee, the creating one!
Thirst in the creating one, arrow and longing for the Superman: tell me, my brother, is this thy will to marriage?
Holy call I such a will, and such a marriage.Thus spake Zarathustra.
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F.
Fulltime enMasse Member
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | ... something happened along the lines of what happened when Christianity incorporated pagan spring rites into Easter ... |
I heard somewhere that the Korean version of Presbyterianism was among first to advocate ordination for women, largely as a way to attract members by incorporating elements of Korean shamanism into Christianity. Korea and Africa are notable for historically prefering female shamans. Whether or not this affects happenings in the Myungsung Presbyterian Church, I have no idea.
| Quote: | | Well, you know, the famous wedding entrance tune(aka Here Comes The Bride) WAS written by Wagner |
I always thought it was Mendelssohn. Thanks for correcting that. I wonder who the guy was who came up with the alternate lyrics - "Here comes the bride, short, fat and wide ..." |
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voice of the damned
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Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 6149
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I always thought it was Mendelssohn. |
No, Mendelssohn wrote the piece that's played after the exchange of the vows. The more upbeat, fast-moving thing. |
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voice of the damned
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Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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Location: slandered, libeled
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I heard somewhere that the Korean version of Presbyterianism was among first to advocate ordination for women, largely as a way to attract members by incorporating elements of Korean shamanism into Christianity. |
I was curious about this, so I asked a co-worker who's deeply involved with Presbyterianism in Korea. He said that each Presbyterian church(ie. each congregation) decides for itself whether to accept female ministers. I asked him what percentage of Presbyterian churches have females in the pulpit, and he estimated that it would be around 20%. I don't know if the other 80% would mostly be churches that have a policy of not accepting women, or if they just haven't gotten around to having a female pastor.
In my experience, Korean Presbyterian is quite old-school, having much in common with American-style evangelicals. So, I don't know if they would explicity try to emulate shamanism, in the way that(say) a feminist theologian in the United Church Of Canada might try to incorporate some elements of goddess-worship into her liturgy. But yeah, a lot of shamanistic overtones have crept into Korean Christianity, as I think we were discussing a few months back on this forum.
Dr. Chung Hyan Kyung is a Korean feminist theologian who advocates what seems like a version of the social gospel with deliberate shamanistic overtones.
| Quote: | Dr Chung, a Korean feminist theologian now aged 42 and teaching in the United States, is a visitor at the assembly. She participated in the Decade Festival held immediately before the assembly which was organised to mark the conclusion of the Ecumenical Decade of Churches in Solidarity with Women, where she led a healing service drawing on indigenous Korean spiritual traditions during a hearing about violence against women.
Dr Chung first came to international prominence during the WCC's last assembly, in Canberra in 1991, when her keynote speech - evoking, in traditional Korean style, the spirits of people martyred and murdered, and linking them to the Holy Spirit - was welcomed by some delegates in Canberra, but outraged others - particularly Orthodox officials - who accused her of paganism and syncretism.
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| Quote: | During her healing service in the Decade Festival, Dr Chung referred to Oscar Wilde, the late 19th-century Irish dramatist, who was imprsioned in England because of his homosexuality, adding: "I think of my brothers and sisters who cannot be here because they are homosexual."
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But I would be hesitant about assuming that this sort of approach has a lot of grassroots support among Korean Christians. As I said, a lot of them won't even bow to dead ancestors. And the current right-wing government is chock full of protestant ideologues who have more in common with Ian Paisley than with any vision of progressive theology.
| Quote: | Specifically, Buddhist leaders cite how, while he was mayor of Seoul, President Lee offered the city to God in a public prayer, issued a statement on a video offering salutations to people participating in a prayer meeting in Busan at which participants prayed for the physical collapse of the country’s temples, and declared that the reconstruction of Cheonggyecheon was evidence of “God leading history.” These officials say they do not expect him to do the same in his role as president. Many Buddhists feel betrayed because they supported him in the presidential election.
Regionally, Buddhism is strongest in the Gyeongsang provinces, which, for the most part, happen to overlap with the area that has traditionally supported the ruling Grand National Party. Many Buddhist GNP supporters in North and South Gyeongsang Province voted for Lee despite their religious differences. They voted a Protestant elder into office, and now say they fail to see a president who transcends religion and serves the country as a whole.
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There were some more blatant attempts at anti-Buddhist discrimination, which that article doesn't go into.
The discrepancy in the Gyeongsang provinces, with a substantially Buddhist population supporting a(currently) Christian-dominated government, has been intriguing me for a while now. With the exception of Syngmann Rhee, who was Christian, all the major dictators of the post-Korean War era were either Buddhist or non-religious.
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F.
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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It's a fascinating situation. You've got these Buddhists who control some very profitable resources, temples and such, and who are not shy about hiring mafia-like figures to defend their assets. So some of their claims of being discriminated against are a bit suspect. On the other hand, you've got a party in power that obviously favors Christians in the cabinet, an education system that allegedly favors Christians, and even a national police director who publically states that he wants to evangelize the entire police force. So there's grounds for the Buddhists to be a bit pissed. Add to all of this the nationalist/xenophobic rhetoric that gets thrown around at members of each religion.
Unlike the US, I can't help but think that there is something sincere about the Christian beliefs of the current Korean leadership. Either that or they're very subtle in their demagoguery.
There's enough monkeyshines afoot to keep a bunch of screenwriters busy for years. |
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voice of the damned
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Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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Location: slandered, libeled
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Unlike the US, I can't help but think that there is something sincere about the Christian beliefs of the current Korean leadership. Either that or they're very subtle in their demagoguery.
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I agree, these guys are nothing if not sincere. I don't know how much electoral advantage there would be to their anti-Buddhist position. And some of the discriminatory stuff was so under-the-radar, it didn't really seem plausible that it could simply be public pandering.
| Quote: | | You've got these Buddhists who control some very profitable resources, temples and such, and who are not shy about hiring mafia-like figures to defend their assets. So some of their claims of being discriminated against are a bit suspect. |
Yeah, sectarianism in Korea doesn't seem to really break down along class lines, the way it did in, say, 19th-Century Canada. I think Christianity has sort of been thought of as something favored by the upwardly mobile middle-class, but on the other hand, the older-money chaebol families, the clans that run Hyundai, Samsung, et al, were mostly Buddhist. I'm not aware of any one religion being immediately synonymous with "ruling class". The most prominent of the dictators, Park Chung Hee, told Jimmy Carter(who was trying to convert him) that he had no religion, a few months prior to being assassinated(Park is the ideological godfather of the current, Christian-dominated right-wing government).
| Quote: | Add to all of this the nationalist/xenophobic rhetoric that gets thrown around at members of each religion.
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You'll notice that, despite all the hardcore Christians here, no serious movement to change the obviously heathen-influenced national flag has ever gotten off the ground. I think this says something about the effect that overarching nationalism can have on taming sectarian impulses. Not that I am a huge fan of overarching nationalism. |
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voice of the damned
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 6149
Location: slandered, libeled
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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Back to the original story...
| Quote: | The bodyguard who accompanied the late former President Roh Moo-hyun on his hike now admits that he was not with Roh at the time of his fall. The bodyguard claims that he was escorting another hiker down the hill and returned to discover Roh missing. He has recanted his earlier statement about having seen Roh jump. Investigators are trying to sort out the truth among conflicting statements given by the bodyguard.
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