EnMasse

No Yards · Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:12 pm Post subject:

I think the "rule" here Raos is that as long as you're regulating someone else's hobby horse then we can be consistent with science, logic and the law ... regulate "my" hobby horse and then screw science, logic and the law.
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I follow, but more importantly, respect the Golden Rule. I fully and completely respect your right to be 'done on to' as you would 'do on to' others.

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 8700

No Yards · Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:11 pm Post subject:

Sorry, I'll get to it a little later ... busy right now seeing f I can find a "success story" in the financial regulations field, because if I can't find a specific incident where you can't claim that financial regulations alone prevented a financial crime then I'm afraid we will just have to abandon all financial regulations ... after all, what good are financial regulations if crooks don't bother to adhere to them any way? Seeing as there is currently lots of evidence that financial regulations didn't stop harmful financial activities, then are we hurting all those honest bankers with "unnecessary and ineffective" regulations? When all honest bankers are regulated, only criminal bankers will run unregulated banks .... blah, blah, blah, and some more nonsensical anti-regulation clap trap that firearm fetish fanatics like to spout whenever they have to deal with reality in discussing the issues with someone other than their "gun club" buddies.

Or, you could look up-thread like I suggested and see the very same article you posted, take you head out of your butt, and recognize that the registry played a part in getting unsafe firearms out of the hands of an idiot that refused to live up to their legal obligations in regards to purchasing and storing firearms.
_________________
I follow, but more importantly, respect the Golden Rule. I fully and completely respect your right to be 'done on to' as you would 'do on to' others.

m0nkyman · Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:55 pm Post subject:

No Yards · Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:08 pm Post subject:

I stand corrected ... alleged idiot.
_________________
I follow, but more importantly, respect the Golden Rule. I fully and completely respect your right to be 'done on to' as you would 'do on to' others.

Hephaestion · Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:05 pm Post subject:

Toronto man convicted in fatal Boxing Day 2005 gunfight that killed Jane Creba sentenced to life

TS. · Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:53 pm Post subject:

Sorry, try again. There was a long gun registry long before 2005. And further news flash: people from Toronto know it's not the entire country. The fact that the rest of the country seems to obsess about Toronto is rather confusing.
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"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

Raos · Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:52 pm Post subject:

And while a single incident does not a justification for widespread changes make, neither does anybody's focus on a single incident mean that there's not a justification for widespread changes.

Cartman · Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:38 pm Post subject:

Hephaestion · Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:45 am Post subject:

m0nkyman · Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:06 pm Post subject:

Technically the hysteria started when the Conservative government passed the handgun registry because they were so scared that the release of Tim Buck would start a revolution. But that was back in 1934 when the left had guns and the right wanted to take them away from people...
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"If I can not dance, I want no part in your revolution."
Emma Goldman

Raos · Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:18 pm Post subject:

Hephaestion · Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:04 pm Post subject:

Oh, you can just *bet* that if Regina residents were reacting with even half the degree of hysteria that the anti-gun crowd down east was marshalling, it'd be ALL over the news. You could almost bank on it.
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"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin

TS. · Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:20 pm Post subject:

Hephaestion · Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:33 pm Post subject:

TS. · Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:30 pm Post subject:

Hephaestion · Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:45 pm Post subject:

TS. · Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:18 pm Post subject:

No Yards · Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:53 pm Post subject:

m0nkyman · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:31 am Post subject:

And if you go to the bottom of the referenced page and read the recommendations there, you will discover that every single damned one of them has to do with licensing, not registration of firearms.
Something that every single one of the gun organizations has no real problems with. Licensing the gun owners, and proper background checks is not being opposed.

I have yet to have it explained what the registry does that legally mandated record keeping doesn't do... except provide a list that can be used for confiscation....
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"If I can not dance, I want no part in your revolution."
Emma Goldman

TS. · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:34 am Post subject:

m0nkyman · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:56 am Post subject:

No Yards · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:39 pm Post subject:

m0nkyman · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:16 pm Post subject:

I'll quote from the bottom of the referenced page in it's entirety.

TS. · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:57 pm Post subject:

m0nkeyman, did you notice that the executive summary you are quoting is recommendations of the Coalition for Gun Control, not of the inquest? Those are also directed at implementation of existing laws. What No Yards quoted from is the actual recommendations of the inquest.
_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

No Yards · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:03 pm Post subject:

Ahh, I see, you are just going to ignore 3/4 of the page and only quote the part that deals with the 1997 recommendations to changes to the laws, which at that time, did not include registration. The page in general though does indeed discuss registration, matter of fact its main focus is how the news laws (registration being part of that law, but only coming into effect in 2003) will address the issue of domestic violence as it pertains to firearms.

[Comment removed by TS.]

edited comment:

m0nkyman · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:08 pm Post subject:

Moderators, that's a personal attack. Please deal with it appropriately.
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"If I can not dance, I want no part in your revolution."
Emma Goldman

TS. · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:13 pm Post subject:

Indeed it is. No Yards, please edit that out, or it will be edited out for you.
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"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

No Yards · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:19 pm Post subject:

TS. · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:26 pm Post subject:

No Yards · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:32 pm Post subject:

The words he put in my mouth was the claim that I called him stupid or dishonest, that was a false claim against me (ie: a personal attack) .... when that claim is removed I will edit my comment as well.
_________________
I follow, but more importantly, respect the Golden Rule. I fully and completely respect your right to be 'done on to' as you would 'do on to' others.

TS. · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject:

No Yards · Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:42 pm Post subject:

No need to appeal, I'll do my own edit then.
_________________
I follow, but more importantly, respect the Golden Rule. I fully and completely respect your right to be 'done on to' as you would 'do on to' others.

Hephaestion · Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:23 pm Post subject:

*sigh*.... wading in again...

So, CBC Radio is reporting that a Private Member's Bill to abolish the long gun registry will be debated and voted on today, and that there is enough support from some Liberal and NDP back-benchers -- including Nicki Ashton -- that it will surely pass second reading.

CBC also said that because it's a PMB, its intent cannot be altered in committee, and that as long as enough Liberal/NDP members continue to support it, it should be able to clear the House. Aaaand, that if this bill doesn't get to the Senate before the new year -- by which point the Harpokons will have a majority in the Red Chamber -- it should sail on through there, too.

It won't surprise many here that I thought the long gun registry was deeply flawed from the start, and I won't be sad to see it go, if it does. Good riddance to bad rubbish, I say. And good for Nicki Ashton.
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"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin

Hephaestion · Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:47 pm Post subject:

Quebec's public safety minister asks MPs to defeat Private Member's Bill

Tehanu · Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:22 pm Post subject:

Well, that flushing sound is a billion-plus dollars heading down the toilet, as MPs voted to approve the second reading for eliminating the long gun registry.

m0nkyman · Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:30 pm Post subject:

Good for the NDP members who voted for this bill!
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"If I can not dance, I want no part in your revolution."
Emma Goldman

TS. · Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:59 pm Post subject:

m0nkyman · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:51 am Post subject:

NDP YEAS
Allen (Welland) - NDP
Angus - NDP
Ashton - NDP
Bevington - NDP
Cullen - NDP
Gravelle - NDP
Hughes - NDP
Hyer - NDP
Maloway - NDP
Rafferty - NDP
Stoffer - NDP
Thibeault - NDP

Total: -- 12

Yup, except for Denise Savoie, that's pretty much a list of NDP MP's that I like.
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"If I can not dance, I want no part in your revolution."
Emma Goldman

Hephaestion · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:23 am Post subject:

I am disappointed that Alex Atamanenko (my MP) is not on that list -- he represents a largely wilderness area, damn it. I shall have to drop him a line expressing my chagrin over his vote.
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"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin

m0nkyman · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:35 am Post subject:

TS. · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:45 am Post subject:

Rufus Polson · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:03 pm Post subject:

Tehanu · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:15 pm Post subject:

If NDP MPs who voted to kill the long gun registry did so because they really, truly, deeply believe that asking people to register guns like they do their cars is an infringement of their rights, then fine. All power to them, stand up for what you believe.

If they're doing it to pander to a segment of their constituency who may in fact not even vote for them, to hell with them.

And yeah, we've talked about gun control at length and it's an important conversation. From which I have learned a lot. However, I still have yet to hear of a single good argument about why someone should not register a gun.

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 8700

After Jane Creba was shot in Toronto, and the NDP showed themselves to be closet fascists by suggesting that in addition to social remedies, maybe some people just need to be out of the population for a while, I remember a lot of complaining that the NDP let themselves get carried away on an emotional response to a tragedy.

Well, the long gun registry was also an emotional response to a tragedy.
Remember?

So why is the NDP supposed to be in favour of this one? Honestly, I think we'll make streets and homes far safer by throwing actual, proven gun criminals in jail for a while than we will by making Uncle Elmer register his .22.
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Rufus Polson · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:03 pm Post subject:

Well, personally I don't necessarily have a problem with registering long guns in theory, although I'm not sure just how useful I find it. But the particular practical instance of this theory implemented currently in Canada by all accounts seems to kind of suck. Seems to me people could oppose the Canadian long gun registry for reasons quite distinct from general antipathy to gun control or rights-related questions.
Similarly, I definitely favour federal assistance to First Nations communities for a number of reasons including there are treaties where we said we'd give them money in return for various big hunks of land, and we did get the land, so . . .
And yet I can readily imagine voting to eliminate the Department of Indian Affairs or whatever it's called, because it seems to be a bureaucratic mess so horrible that it needs to be burned to the ground so we can start over.

TS. · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:53 pm Post subject: