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Wee Mousie
thereby hangs a tail
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 2295
Location: 'twixt cinder block and drywall.
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 Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Monday Monday, so good to me,
Monday Monday, it was all I hoped it would be
Oh Monday morning, Monday morning couldn't guarantee
That Monday evening you would still be here with me.
- with appreciation to The Mamas and The Papas
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Relieve The Troops — Bring Them Home Now! |
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Senor Magoo
He's got a big one
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 8700
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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What's so funny about this? Prison is only going to harden him, and teach him to be a better embezzler! He's going to leave prison with no rehabilitation and then what? We've solved nothing by locking him up.
Okay, I'm kidding. Me, I can't wait for the first paparazzi photos of a grim-faced Barbara Amiel, carrying a bucket of chicken and wearing her nicest dress, getting into the skuzzy conjugal visit trailer.
"When this trailer's rockin', don't bother knockin'!"
_________________
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, |
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TS.
Delicious schadenfreude
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 14585
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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I am going to really, really, enjoy the pictures of Conrad Black wearing a prison-orange jumpsuit.
_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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anne cameron
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 3079
Location: tahsis, british columbia
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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I was hoping for stripes.
I got stripes
stripes around my shoulders
I got stripes
stripes around my ass
I got stripes
comin' out the ying yang
and I've still got a dumpster fulla cash.... |
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al-Qa'bong
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 6051
Location: A monistic vulgarity in which nobility and wisdom have been exchanged for a pale belief in progress
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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I'm looking forward to seeing this thread being merged with this thread.
_________________
"The purpose of government is to protect the weak from the powerful" Hammurabi
"We can't all be Sam the Sham; some of us have to be Pharoahs" Larry, brother of Darrel, and his other brother Daryl |
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TS.
Delicious schadenfreude
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 14585
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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That'll be the day...
_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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Tehanu
More or less, more or less
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 17648
Location: Seceded from the Ford Nation
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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More trouble for the Black family, as his son Jonathan is charged with a bunch of things after a hit and run incident. Tsk.
| Quote: | ... Jonathan Black, a 30-year-old former model who's now a Toronto bond trader, was charged yesterday after a luxury car left the scene of an accident in the downtown core on Thursday evening.
He faces four counts, three under the Highway Traffic Act and one – failing to stop after an accident – under the Criminal Code.
... The three traffic charges are careless driving, driving while under suspension, and driving without insurance. "The fine for driving with a suspended licence is a minimum of $5,000 and another automatic suspension for six months if found guilty," Norrie said.
Black's licence was previously suspended for an unknown time over unpaid fines, police said.
... In the accident Thursday, said Norrie, a silver Infiniti headed east on King St. in the passing lane struck a GMC Safari van.
The driver of the Infiniti backed up and drove away.
... The van driver was treated for minor back and neck injuries. |
Toronto Star. |
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munroe
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 336
Location: Lower Mainland
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:57 am Post subject: |
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Poor kid, living under the shadow of such a great, er, large man....
chuckle.
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Out of Afghanistan, NOW! |
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F.
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 2578
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Jonathan Black, a 30-year-old former model who's now a Toronto bond trader, was charged yesterday after a luxury car left the scene of an accident in the downtown core on Thursday evening.
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I love it when they undercut the credibility of the "serious" career (bond trader) with previous job experience that is taken far less seriously (male model).
It's like that movie reviewer who, after writing an actor or director's name, insists on including that person's worst movie in brackets, like Michael Caine (Jaws 3: 3D) or George Clooney (Rerturn of the Killer Tomatoes). |
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Wee Mousie
thereby hangs a tail
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 2295
Location: 'twixt cinder block and drywall.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| F. wrote: | | I love it when they undercut the credibility of the "serious" career (bond trader) with previous job experience that is taken far less seriously (male model) . . . |
By "they" do you mean the two Toronto Star staff writers who wrote the story, Philip Mascoll ("York food banks see more babies," Toronto Star, Sept. 5th, 2002) and Jackson Hayes ("'Dentist' surrenders," Toronto Star, Jan. 28, 2008")?
_________________
Relieve The Troops — Bring Them Home Now! |
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F.
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 2578
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| I was thinking of the general rhetorical device, as opposed to any one practitioner of it. |
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Tehanu
More or less, more or less
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 17648
Location: Seceded from the Ford Nation
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:17 am Post subject: |
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Conrad seems to be settling in well, getting along with everyone, not too stressed about 6.5 years ...
| Quote: | Conrad Black says he's adapting well to life behind bars and doesn't expect to run into any problems while serving his six-and-a-half-year prison term in the United States.
"I am doing fine. This is a safe and civilized place and I don't anticipate any difficulty," Black said in an e-mail to The Canadian Press from his Florida prison.
... Before reporting to jail, he had been staying at his ocean-front mansion in Palm Beach, where his wife, Barbara Amiel Black, has remained so she can visit him often.
Black's lead appeal lawyer, Andrew Frey, said last week that Amiel and Black's daughter Alana had been visiting him "with some frequency." |
Toronto Star.
Now I'm not in favour of prison, as a matter of principle, so I'm pleased to hear that it's not too onerous. |
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Tehanu
More or less, more or less
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 17648
Location: Seceded from the Ford Nation
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 2:43 am Post subject: |
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Now Conrad Black is writing the next stage of his memoirs, and Mr. Originality's stolen the title from Maude Barlow.
| Quote: | Jailed media baron Conrad Black is expected to narrate his own version of the events that led up to his conviction in the U.S. on fraud and racketeering charges in a new autobiography to be published this October by McClelland & Stewart.
The book, titled The Fight of My Life, will pick up the story from Black's previous 1993 memoir, A Life in Progress.
... In a somewhat ironic coincidence, Black's memoir shares the same title as a 1998 autobiography by Canadian nationalist firebrand Maude Barlow. "It's very hard to come up with a completely fresh and original title, especially for a memoir," Pepper said. "And as far as Conrad is concerned, it truly has been the fight of his life." |
Toronto Star. |
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anne cameron
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 3079
Location: tahsis, british columbia
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh, yawn. I do not anticipate buying a copy. "Seems to me I've heard that song before".... |
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TS.
Delicious schadenfreude
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 14585
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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I have a hard time imagining that Lord Tubby's latest self-indulgent excess will sell well.
_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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Tehanu
More or less, more or less
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 17648
Location: Seceded from the Ford Nation
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:56 am Post subject: |
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Why, Bob Hepburn asks in the Toronto Star, has there been so much fuss about the Morgentaler Order of Canada, and yet Conrad Black hasn't been stripped of his? And he's pretty firm about it. Seething, almost. 
| Quote: | ... The simple fact that he is a convicted criminal is enough for Black to be removed as an officer of the Order of Canada. In fact, the advisory council, chaired by Supreme Court Chief Justice Beverley McLachlin, was to deal with this issue last fall, but clearly didn't.
Why not? And why do we let a convicted criminal, a foreigner at that, to hold Canada's highest honour? Have we no pride?
... There is a detailed system to terminate an appointment if a person has been convicted of a crime or if the person's conduct, according to the government's official rules, "constitutes a significant departure from generally recognized standards of public behaviour, which is seen to undermine the credibility, integrity or relevance of the Order, or detracts from the original grounds upon which the appointment was based."
Beyond his criminal conviction, Black is undeserving of the honour because he rejected Canada in favour of British citizenship, and has repeatedly badmouthed us.
... Black and Amiel love to talk about loyalty and honour.
If Black, who has shown no loyalty to this country, has any honour left, he would voluntarily return his Order of Canada.
If he doesn't, Ottawa should move quickly, take away his Order and end this national embarrassment. |
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Tehanu
More or less, more or less
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 17648
Location: Seceded from the Ford Nation
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, this is rich. Conrad Black wants outgoing President Bush to give him clemency, so he can get outta jail. Good luck with that.
| Quote: | Conrad Black is pinning his hopes on clemency from U.S. President George W. Bush as a last-ditch effort to get out of jail early, and he wants his former publishing company to foot the legal bill.
... Under the U.S. Constitution, the president can grant “reprieves and pardons” for all offences against the United States. The president can issue a pardon or a commutation, a reduction in sentence, for any reason and at any stage in the legal process.
... Lord Black did not respond to questions this week about the clemency request, and his lawyer, Andrew Frey, was unavailable. In e-mails to The Globe and Mail earlier this month, Lord Black said he was doing fine in prison, but added that he had been “horrifyingly busy with one thing and another, which is why I am late replying.” When asked what was occupying his time, Lord Black replied: “Writing and reviewing legal initiatives, as well as dealing with my students.”
... Lord Black will join a long line. More than 2,000 requests for pardons and commutations have recently been made, according to the Department of Justice. |
Globe and Mail. |
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Cartman
Beyond cuddly
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 8643
Location: OMG! They killed Jason Kenney!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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The number of people requesting pardons is pretty high. It surprised me anyways. I bet a lot of them go for the Republican law and order stuff too, except when it comes to them.
I would like to know how much Black offers to Bush...and whether Bush needs it. Remember, Bush is incredible at destroying businesses and economies. |
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Cartman
Beyond cuddly
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 8643
Location: OMG! They killed Jason Kenney!
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| When Bush leaves and hands out all of these pardons, is Obama able to repeal them? |
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TS.
Delicious schadenfreude
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 14585
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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No, a pardon is forever.
_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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Cartman
Beyond cuddly
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 8643
Location: OMG! They killed Jason Kenney!
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| TS. wrote: | | No, a pardon is forever. |
So, Bush could pardon anyone he wants to with no limits at all? |
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TS.
Delicious schadenfreude
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 14585
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Cartman wrote: | | TS. wrote: | | No, a pardon is forever. |
So, Bush could pardon anyone he wants to with no limits at all? |
That's my understanding.
_________________
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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anne cameron
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 3079
Location: tahsis, british columbia
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Should put himself and his cabal at the top of the list. The whole dam lot of them should be in jail! |
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bagkitty
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 599
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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Hmmm, can he pardon people for crimes they have not yet been charged with... grant them immunity from any future prosecution? (Thinking of potential war crime and torture charges)
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Whom the hive does not cherish, it eats. |
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Crippled_Newsie
USian Hikikomori
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 886
Location: Where the trees claw at the windows.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Hmmm, can he pardon people for crimes they have not yet been charged with... grant them immunity from any future prosecution? (Thinking of potential war crime and torture charges) |
The person pardoned need not have been accused, much less indicted, to receive a Presidential pardon. Think Ford's pardon of Nixon.
What hasn't really been explored much is exactly how broad such a pardon of an unindicted person can be-- Nixon's pardon was explicitly for things related to Watergate. If he'd, say, cheated on his taxes 20 years earlier, the pardon likely wouldnt have covered that.
_________________
"You may say you don't hate us, but the people you vote for do, so what's the difference?" --Larry Kramer |
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Cartman
Beyond cuddly
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 8643
Location: OMG! They killed Jason Kenney!
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The person pardoned need not have been accused, much less indicted, to receive a Presidential pardon. Think Ford's pardon of Nixon. |
What!? So, they can get away with anything? I cannot be the only person who finds this system absolutely insane. |
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Tehanu
More or less, more or less
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 17648
Location: Seceded from the Ford Nation
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:21 am Post subject: |
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It is quite something, isn't it? And I'll bet that if/when further details of Bush & Co's criminality emerge, Obama will be under pressure to pardon them, too.
Professional courtesy.
Here's a partial list of people Bush has already pardoned.
| Quote: | 1. James Leon Adams (1965 selling firearms to out of state residents and falsifying firearms records)[4]
2. Kristan Diane Bullock Akins (1990 Embezzlement by a bank employee)[5]
3. Charles James Allen (1979 conspiracy to defraud the United States. A former federal employee, Allen was convicted for approving payments to James Hilles Associates Inc., a Virginia firm, for office supplies that were never delivered. In return, Allen received car parts, a radio, a freezer and other gifts from the firm. Pardoned December 21, 2006)
4. Tony Dale Ashworth (1989 unlawful transfer of a firearm)[4]
5. Alan Dale Austin (1987 misapplication of mortgage funds)[6]
6. William L. Baker (1980 falsifying records)[1]
7. William Sidney Baldwin Sr. (1981 conspiracy to possess marijuana. Pardoned December 21, 2006)
8. Timothy Evans Barfield (1989 aiding and abetting false statements on a Small Business Administration loan application. Pardoned December 21, 2006)
9. Bruce Louis Bartos (1987 transportation of a machine gun in foreign commerce)[7]
10. George Francis Bauckham (1958 unlawful detention or delay of the mail by a postal employee)[1]
11. David Thomas Billmyer (1978 military conviction for making a false claim)[8]
12. James Allen Bodendieck, Sr. (1959 interstate transportation of a stolen vehicle)[9]
13. Clyde Philip Boudreaux (1975 military conviction for borrowing money from enlisted men, accepting a noninterest-bearing loan from a government contractor and signing and swearing to a false affidavit. Pardoned December 21, 2006)
14. Gene Armand Bridger (1963 Conspiracy to commit mail fraud, and mail fraud)[10]
15. Marie Georgette Ginette Briere (1982 possession of cocaine with intent to distribute)
16. Kenneth Charles Britt (1998 conspiracy to violate fish and wildlife laws)[1]
17. Jeffrey James Bruce (1994 possession of stolen mail)[9]
18. Charles Wayne Bryant (1962 theft of U.S. mail matter by employee)[9]
19. William Bruce Butt (1990 bank embezzlement))[1]
20. Carl E. Cantrell (1967 moonshining)[11]
21. Charles Winston Carter (1964 conspiracy to steal government property)[11]
22. Meredith Elizabeth Casares (1989 embezzlement of US Postal Service funds)[12]
23. Ronald William Cauley (1980 Misapplication of bank funds by an employee)[5]
24. Cathryn Iline Clasen-Gage (1992 Misprision of a felony)[10]
25. Thomas Kimble Collinsworth (1989 Receipt of a stolen motor vehicle that had been transported in interstate commerce)[10]
26. Charles Russell Cooper (1959 bootlegging) [6]
27. Anthony John Curreri (1976 Mail fraud) [13]
28. Morris F. Cranmer, Jr. (1988 Making materially false statements to a federally-insured institution)[10]
29. Dale C. Critz, Jr. (1989 making a false statement)
30. William Charles Davis (1983 income tax evasion)[8]
31. Randall Leece Deal (1960 and 1964 liquor laws)[4]
32. Paul Jude Donnici (September 23, 1993) Use of a telephone in the transmission of wagering information [14]
33. William Henry Eagle (1972 moonshining)[4]
34. Mark Alan Eberwine (1985 conspiracy to defraud the United States by impeding, impairing, and obstructing the assessment of taxes by the Internal Revenue Service and making false declarations to the grand jury. Pardoned December 21, 2006)
35. Rusty Lawrence Elliott (1991 Making counterfeit Federal Reserve notes)[10]
36. Robert Carter Eversole (1984 theft)[4]
37. Gerald Douglas Ficke (1992 money laundering)[12]
38. Harper James Finucan (1980 marijuana possession with intent to distribute)[11]
39. Kenneth Clifford Foner (1991 bank fraud)[4]
40. Anthony Americo Franchi (1983 tax evasion)
41. Colin Earl Francis (1993 accepting a kickback of about $9,000 for helping a vendor for United Technologies Corp.'s Sikorsky Aircraft division, where Francis worked at the time, land a contract. Pardoned December 21, 2006)
42. Victoria Diane Frost (1994 conspiracy to possess)[4]
43. William Grover Frye (1968 AWOL and 1973 sale of stolen car)[4]
44. Joseph Daniel Gavin (1979 military insubordination, drunkenness, threats, and other offenses) [6]
45. George Glenn (1956 accepting $50 bribe while in military)
46. Samuel Wattie Guerry (1984 food stamp fraud)[14]
47. Adam Wade Graham (1992 Conspiracy to deliver 10 or more grams of LSD)[10]
48. Charles E. Hamilton (1989 mail fraud)[14]
49. Stanley Bernard Hamilton 1990 (money order fraud)[4]
50. Brianna Lea Haney (1991 failure to report monetary instruments)[7]
51. George Thomas Harley (1984 aiding and abetting the distribution of cocaine. Pardoned December 21, 2006)
52. Rufus Edward Harris (1963 Possession and selling tax-unpaid whiskey)[10]
53. Jesse Ray Harvey (1990 Property damage by use of explosives and destruction of an energy facility)[10]
54. David Custer Heaston (1988 false statement)[7]
55. Melodie Jean Hebert (1984 defrauding U.S. with false claims)[4]
56. Patricia Ann Hultman (1985 conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute and to distribute cocaine and other controlled substances. Pardoned December 21, 2006)
57. Bobby Frank Kay Sr. (1959 moonshining)[11]
58. James Ernest Kinard, Jr. (1984 fraudulent firearms dealer records)[4]
59. Richard Ardell Krueger (1979 mail fraud and 1980 and false statement on a loan application)[8]
60. Devin Timothy Kruse (1979 AWOL from Coast Guard)[4]
61. Margaret Ann Leggett (1981 false claims)
62. Raul Marin (1982 failure to appear in court) [6]
63. Larry Paul Lenius (1989 Conspiracy to distribute cocaine)[10]
64. Larry Lee Lopez (1985 Conspiracy to import marijuana)[10]
65. Bobbie Archie Maxwell (1962 Mailing a threatening letter)[10]
66. David B. McCall, Jr. (1997 False entry in bank books and aiding and abetting)[15]
67. Melvin L. McKee (1982 conspiracy to make false statements on a loan application)[11]
68. Charles McKinley, (1950 moonshining)[11]
69. Michael Mark McLaughlin (1983 mail fraud and conspiracy)[8]
70. Craven Wilford McLemore (1983 Conspiracy to defraud the United States and Caddo County) [13]
71. Denise Bitters Mendelkow (1981 Embezzlement by a bank employee)[10]
72. Michael Robert Moelter (1988 illegal gambling business)[7]
73. Billie Curtis Moore (1977 income tax evasion)[8]
74. Richard Arthur Morse (1963 transportation of a stolen vehicle)[12]
75. Gerard Murphy (1972 car theft)[4]
76. Kenneth Lynn Norris (1993 unlawful disposal of hazardous waste)[14]
77. Joseph Mathew Novak (1994 possession and transfer of an illegal weapon)[4]
78. Eric William Olson (1984 military conviction for conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute, possession with intent to distribute, possession, and use of hashish. Pardoned December 21, 2006)
79. Donald Lee Pendergrass (1964 armed bank robbery)[11]
80. Fred Dale Pitzer (1976 transportation of falsely made securities)[12]
81. Charles Blurford Power (1948 transportation of a stolen vehicle)[11]
82. Michael John Pozorski (1988 Unlawful possession of an unregistered firearm)[10]
83. James Edward Reed (1975 marijuana possession with intent to distribute)[8]
84. Thomas R. Reece (1969 violating the Internal Revenue Code pertaining to alcohol. Pardoned December 21, 2006)
85. Cecil John Rhodes (1981 false statement on a loan application)[12]
86. John Louis Ribando (1976 and 1978 marijuana dealing)[4]
87. Larry Gene Ross (1989 making false statements in a bank loan application. Pardoned December 21, 2006)
88. Ernest Rudnet (1992 conspiracy to file false tax returns) [6]
89. Gary L. Saltzburg (1995 theft of government property) [6]
90. John Gregory Schillace (1988 conspiracy to possess cocaine for distribution)[11]
91. Russell Don Sell (1995 aiding and abetting a false statement on a loan application)[12]
92. Stephen Davis Simmons (1981 Possession of counterfeit obligations)[5]
93. Scott LaVerne Sparks (1989 theft of government property)[8]
94. Wendy St. Charles (1984 conspiracy to trade narcotics and cocaine distribution)[11]
95. David Lloyd St. Croix (1989 disposal of stolen explosives)[6]
96. Jearld David Swanner (1991 making false statements in a bank loan application. Pardoned December 21, 2006)
97. James Walter Taylor (1991 bank fraud. Pardoned December 21, 2006)
98. Johnson Heyward Tisdale (1994 food stamp fraud)[14]
99. Edward Rodriguez Trevino, Jr. (1997 theft, convicted in military court)[4]
100. Janet Theone Upton (1975 mail fraud. pardoned December 21, 2006)
101. Jerry Dean Walker (1989 cocaine distribution)[4]
102. Joseph William Warner (1995 arson on an Indian reservation)[6]
103. Mark Lewis Weber (1981 Selling Quaalude tablets, selling, using, and possessing marijuana )[10]
104. Roger Charles Weber (1969 Theft from an interstate shipment)[5]
105. Mariano Garza Caballero (1984 dealing in firearms without a license)[1]
106. Anthony C. Foglio aka Tony Foley(1996 distributing marijuana)[1]
107. Marvin Robert Foster (1968 making a false statement in connection with a Federal Housing Administration loan)[1]
108. Carl Harry Hachmeister (1985 conspiracy to commit wire and mail fraud)[1]
109. William Marcus McDonald (1984 Air Force court-martial for cocaine and marijuana charges)[1]
110. Robert Michael Milroy (1975 heroin importation)[1]
111. Jerry Lynn Moldenhauer (1994 selling migratory bird parts in violation of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act)[1]
112. Thomas Donald Moldenhauer (1994 selling migratory bird parts in violation of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act)[1]
113. Richard James Putney (1996 aiding and abetting the escape of a prisoner)[1]
114. Timothy Alfred Thone (1987 making a false statement to the Department of Housing and Urban Development to obtain a mortgage)[1]
115. Lonnie Edward Two Eagle Sr. (1976 misdemeanor simple assault on an Indian reservation)[1]
116. Jimmy Lee Williams (1995 false statements on a loan application)[11]
117. William Charles Jordan Jr. (1997 conspiracy to gamble regarding football)[16]
118. Jeffrey James Bruce (1994 possessing stolen mail)[16]
119. Jackie Ray Clayborn (1993 marijuana charges)[16]
120. John Fornaby (1991 conspiring to distribute cocaine)[16]
121. Melton Harrell (1976 stealing government property)[16]
122. Saul Kaplan (1992 violating the Federal Election Campaign Act)[16]
123. John F. McDermott (1995 receiving kickbacks in defense procurement contracts)[16]
124. William James Norman (1970 possessing and running an unregistered distillery that did not carry the proper signage and illegally produced alcoholic drinks made from mash)[16]
125. James Albert Bodendieck Sr.(1959 transporting a stolen vehicle across state lines)[16]
126. Glanus Terrell Osborne (1990 possessing a stolen motor vehicle)[16]
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The Evil Twin
Stoned Immaculate
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 3746
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | And I'll bet that if/when further details of Bush & Co's criminality emerge, Obama will be under pressure to pardon them, too.
Professional courtesy. |
Not just professional courtesy, but covering his own ass for the future - Noam Chomsky made the observation that every single President since WWII (including "liberals" like Carter and Clinton) could be seriously (he wasn't being flippant or over the top) brought up on war crimes charges. I have no doubt that Obama will be the same.
Yeah maybe Bush's were more obvious but various US acts in the past (bombing Serbia, overthrowing democratic regimes in Latin America, Asia and Africa, the Bay of Pigs, attempted assasinations of various world leaders, the secret bombing of Cambodia etc.) were also against international law. Bush won't be charged because the whole US political establishment will protect him - thus insuring themselves against the same charges. 
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Cartman
Beyond cuddly
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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Location: OMG! They killed Jason Kenney!
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:13 am Post subject: |
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There are a lot of weird charges in Tehanu's list. Moonshining?
I don't understand why a prez has this ability. |
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Tehanu
More or less, more or less
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 17648
Location: Seceded from the Ford Nation
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:23 am Post subject: |
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Note, too, the preponderance of white collar criminals. Otherwise gun crimes, or drugs/booze. Says something about Bush, I'd say!
But "moonshining" is a good one. |
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Cartman
Beyond cuddly
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Location: OMG! They killed Jason Kenney!
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| Tehanu wrote: | Note, too, the preponderance of white collar criminals. Otherwise gun crimes, or drugs/booze. Says something about Bush, I'd say!
But "moonshining" is a good one. |
I was sort of surprised when I saw moonshining, then I remembered that Bush is the outgoing prez. Amazing how the Republicans get away with pretending to be all moral and ethical when they really are scumbags. |
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TS.
Delicious schadenfreude
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 14585
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:02 am Post subject: |
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| Cartman wrote: | There are a lot of weird charges in Tehanu's list. Moonshining?
I don't understand why a prez has this ability. |
The President has that ability because the office was essentially given the same powers as the British monarch, which has always included clemency. The Governor General holds the power of clemency as well on the advice of the Cabinet, but it is used only on vanishingly rare occasions.
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"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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Cartman
Beyond cuddly
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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Location: OMG! They killed Jason Kenney!
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:13 am Post subject: |
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| TS. wrote: | | Cartman wrote: | There are a lot of weird charges in Tehanu's list. Moonshining?
I don't understand why a prez has this ability. |
The President has that ability because the office was essentially given the same powers as the British monarch, which has always included clemency. The Governor General holds the power of clemency as well on the advice of the Cabinet, but it is used only on vanishingly rare occasions. |
Unreal. I certainly did not know that about Canada. |
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TS.
Delicious schadenfreude
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 14585
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| Cartman wrote: | | TS. wrote: | | Cartman wrote: | There are a lot of weird charges in Tehanu's list. Moonshining?
I don't understand why a prez has this ability. |
The President has that ability because the office was essentially given the same powers as the British monarch, which has always included clemency. The Governor General holds the power of clemency as well on the advice of the Cabinet, but it is used only on vanishingly rare occasions. |
Unreal. I certainly did not know that about Canada. |
Technically, there is the possibility of a final appeal of a criminal case from the Supreme Court of Canada to the Governor in Council (the Cabinet), but I can't think of a time it has ever been used.
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"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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Crippled_Newsie
USian Hikikomori
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Posts: 886
Location: Where the trees claw at the windows.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:56 am Post subject: |
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War crimes would, of course, be outside the bailiwick of US Presidential pardons because those crimes are not prosecuted (nor prosecutable) in US Federal Court.
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bshmr
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 4004
Location: Central USA, Earth
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Crippled_Newsie wrote: | | War crimes would, of course, be outside the bailiwick of US Presidential pardons because those crimes are not prosecuted (nor prosecutable) in US Federal Court. |
Curious, a source please. |
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Crippled_Newsie
USian Hikikomori
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 886
Location: Where the trees claw at the windows.
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| bshmr wrote: | | Crippled_Newsie wrote: | | War crimes would, of course, be outside the bailiwick of US Presidential pardons because those crimes are not prosecuted (nor prosecutable) in US Federal Court. |
Curious, a source please. |
Well, since I can't find one, I may well be wrong.
It was my understanding that proper Crimes Against Humanity-style war crimes were solely a matter of International Law, but I can't confirm that, so I withdraw the statement.
ETA: Yup, I'm wrong:
| Quote: | § 2441. War crimes
(a) Offense.— Whoever, whether inside or outside the United States, commits a war crime, in any of the circumstances described in subsection (b), shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for life or any term of years, or both, and if death results to the victim, shall also be subject to the penalty of death.
[...]
(c) Definition.— As used in this section the term “war crime” means any conduct—
(1) defined as a grave breach in any of the international conventions signed at Geneva 12 August 1949, or any protocol to such convention to which the United States is a party;
(2) prohibited by Article 23, 25, 27, or 28 of the Annex to the Hague Convention IV, Respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land, signed 18 October 1907;
(3) which constitutes a grave breach of common Article 3 (as defined in subsection (d)) when committed in the context of and in association with an armed conflict not of an international character; or
(4) of a person who, in relation to an armed conflict and contrary to the provisions of the Protocol on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Mines, Booby-Traps and Other Devices as amended at Geneva on 3 May 1996 (Protocol II as amended on 3 May 1996), when the United States is a party to such Protocol, willfully kills or causes serious injury to civilians.... |
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Rufus Polson
Purple Library Guy
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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Location: SFU and/or the college of Riddlemastery at Caithnard
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| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| Mind you, that wouldn't necessarily stop, say, the World Court or International Criminal Court if (big if) they had the political will and got their hands on him. Similarly, one imagines that it would be tough for the US prez to pardon someone for crimes they're wanted for in, say, Italy. Berlusconi might be happy to help out, though. |
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bshmr
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| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| International recourse comes into play particularly in cases where a nation fails to pursue justice. |
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TS.
Delicious schadenfreude
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 14585
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| bshmr wrote: | | International recourse comes into play particularly in cases where a nation fails to pursue justice. |
Quite right. The ICC is only capable of trying cases in which the nation of which the person is a citizen or the country where the crimes were committed, cannot or will not try the person. As for the World Court of Justice, it doesn't have a criminal arm. It is actually an adjudicative body to try disputes between states.
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"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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Cartman
Beyond cuddly
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| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| Surely this cannot be correct? Basically, someone gets elected and all of his friends pretty much have the ability to do whatever the hell they want to? There must be some kind of controls available? |
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Crippled_Newsie
USian Hikikomori
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Location: Where the trees claw at the windows.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Article II, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution gives the president "Power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment." A reprieve reduces the severity of a punishment without removing the guilt of the person reprieved. A pardon removes both punishment and guilt.
As judicially interpreted, the president's power to grant reprieves and pardons is absolute. |
http://igs.berkeley.edu/library/pardon.html
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TS.
Delicious schadenfreude
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 14585
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:40 am Post subject: |
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| Cartman wrote: | | Surely this cannot be correct? Basically, someone gets elected and all of his friends pretty much have the ability to do whatever the hell they want to? There must be some kind of controls available? |
As CN has pointed out, there aren't. The only controls are political. Bill Clinton's legacy took a hit based on his pardons, but obviously it's not that effective a control.
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"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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Cartman
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| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:50 am Post subject: |
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According to this article, Cheney may become the next President of the US! 
http://www.alternet.org/rights/108317/can_george_w._bush_%27self-pa...
| Quote: | Charlotte Dennett promised that, if she won her race for attorney general of Vermont in the recent election, she would prosecute George W. Bush for the murder of 4,000 American soldiers and more than 100,000 Iraqi civilians after he left office.
Unfortunately, Dennett did not become Vermont's attorney general. But it is possible (perhaps very possible) that one or more of our other 49 state attorneys general will take up that case after Jan. 20. Hopefully, that AG will appoint -- as Dennett promised to do --famed criminal attorney Vincent Bugliosi (author of The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder) as special prosecutor.
...
He can simply pardon Cheney (and everyone else) and immediately resign. Cheney then becomes president and pardons him. Short, sweet, and -- after consulting with an attorney -- perfectly legal.
...
My only question is -- why is no one even discussing this? |
I find this whole thing really incredible. |
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Hephaestion
Deeply Shallow
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Location: Where the Wild Things Are...
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| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:54 am Post subject: |
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Bush grants pardons to 14 individuals.
Lord Tubby was not one of them.
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TS.
Delicious schadenfreude
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 14585
Location: Toronto, ON
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| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:56 am Post subject: |
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Give it time.
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"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson |
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A_J
Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 362
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| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Cartman wrote: | | Surely this cannot be correct? Basically, someone gets elected and all of his friends pretty much have the ability to do whatever the hell they want to? There must be some kind of controls available? |
There needs to be some office that can grant a last-resort pardon, just in case. Sure it gets abused quite a lot, but it's not all bad: Carter pardoned the Vietnam draft-dodgers, Clinton pardoned (posthoumously) Henry Ossian Flipper, the first black graduate from West Point who had been unfairly dishonourably discharged by racist fellow officers.
EDIT: Heh, Bush pardons kindred spirit:
Pardoning the Thanksgiving Turkeys
Bush: "I understand what it's like, I'm stupid too" |
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Cartman
Beyond cuddly
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Location: OMG! They killed Jason Kenney!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | There needs to be some office that can grant a last-resort pardon, just in case. |
Should this not be done by the courts? For a President to have such power is scary stuff IMO. He can whimsically pardon anyone for any reason. |
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Hephaestion
Deeply Shallow
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 24243
Location: Where the Wild Things Are...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:06 am Post subject: |
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That's right. He can.
So can Liz Windsor.
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"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin |
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Cartman
Beyond cuddly
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 8643
Location: OMG! They killed Jason Kenney!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| So much for that merkan revolution. |
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