EnMasse

Senor Magoo · He's got a big one Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 8700

No, I just ignored your transparent attempt to make a li'l hay.
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thwap · Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject:

The Evil Twin · Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:33 am Post subject:

sparqui · Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:51 am Post subject:

^^^ Right on ET. Clap, Clap

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“If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a tractor.”

-- Gilles Duceppe

thwap · Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:07 am Post subject:

Tehanu · Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:58 am Post subject:

Romeo Dallaire has headed to Washington to lobby for Khadr's release on the grounds that he was in effect a child soldier. He says he's not getting anywhere with the Harper government. I know people round here have been up and down on Dallaire, but good for him, he's really taken on this issue and is pushing it.

Who's Your Daggy? · Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:16 am Post subject:

I have to admit, after reading this, I am having some more sympathy for this guy now. Don't know whether it was a Christmastime visit from Marley's ghost or what...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5ienBNS...

My sympathy for Arar is on the wane, though...

sparqui · Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:11 am Post subject:

So when a frightened and seriously injured 15 year old gets tortured you actually believe that what he says is the truth? Give your head a shake.
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“If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a tractor.”

-- Gilles Duceppe

Who's Your Daggy? · Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:38 am Post subject:

I guess not... I'm just kind of wondering... you're probably right, though. Probably not worth giving a second thought.

transplant · Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:09 pm Post subject:

Good point made this am on CBC Radio 1 by an author who has been following the Arar and Khadr stories:
Since Obama has said he will close down Gitmo and bring the detainees to US soil and into the US justice system he will almost certainly suspend the military commissions as well, and very likely that he will ask Stevie to take Khadr off his hands as well. With the inauguration today, this was their last chance to use Khadr to get this smear of Arar into the record and into the public mind.

thwap · Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:09 pm Post subject:

OMFG: If somebody was wrongly accused of child molestation, was famously sent to prison and infamously beaten there for being a disgusting child molester, and then turned out to be completely innocent and successfully sued their former accusers for wrongful imprisonment and the resulting pain and suffering, ... would it be responsible to, years later, print the unfounded allegations of, say, a homeless schizophrenic person, that the person in question did, in fact, molest children?

Of course not.

So where the fuck does the CBC get off repeating the words of an obviously delusional and incompetent CIA agent (delusional because he imagines that his revolting lies mean anything to sane people) saying that Omar Khadr picked Maher Arar from a group of photographs stating that he saw him at a terrorist training camp in Afghanistan?

Arar's life was first destroyed when he was identified by another innocent Canadian who was being tortured in Syria at the behest of Canadian "intelligence" agencies for having an out-of-date tourist map of Ottawa in the glove compartment of his delivery truck. Under pressure from Arar's magnificent wife Monia Mazigh and several other fine people who make this a country worth living in, Arar's case was investigated by the Honourable Justice, Dennis O'Connor, who determined unequivacably that Arar was an innocent man whose rights were cruelly violated and he was awarded $10.5 million in compensation for those outrages.

For some reason, the CBC and other media outlets still saw fit to publish the information that Omar Khadr identified him from a photograph while being interrogated in Camp X-Ray at Guantanamo Bay. This, in spite of the fact that it is known beyond a shadow of a doubt that Khadr has been tortured. In spite of the fact that it is known that evidence obtained under torture is worthless because people will say anything to stop the torture.

Perhaps I should call up the CBC and tell them there's still people talking about the Jews staying home on 9-11 2001, and they could put on the top of their website. Talk about it on the evening news. Shit, why don't I just torture somebody in my basement until they admit that Stephen Harper raped them, and then I'll call their Ottawa correspondent with the "news"?

In short, how completely stupid and/or callous do you have to be to publish garbage like that? How ignorant of journalistic standards do you have to be? Shame on everyone in the mainstream media who has been a party to this travesty!

For an indication of how loathsomely stupid these "journalists" and "editors" are to have relayed this information, let's note that the imbecilic Ezra Levant has also taken this story and waddled with it. In a sick sort of way, it's actually laughable that Levant believes this ridiculous garbage "vindicates" his failed line of toilet-paper, The Western Standard

Canadian Cynic mentions that even a really stupid, non-practicing lawyer should know better than to libel someone as a "liar" and hopes that Arar will sue Levant for having done just that in the title of his post. Indeed. I would like to see Arar sue every corporate media outlet that published this slander and reopened old wounds.

ETA: Dr. Dawg says what I've said and more, and also links to the Toronto Star speaking intelligently on the subject. Finally, Khadr's "information" was given out at Bagram Base in Afghanistan, not at Guantanamo. Both sites are notorious for torture.
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Man! I hate them fancy-lads!

swirrlygrrl · Fulltime enMasse Member Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 321

The Globe was at least good enough to point out that Khadr would have been 6 or 7 years old when he supposedly saw Arar at the safe house. So, now you've got torture and a memory that is 8 or 9 years years old. So close to convincing me!! Rolling Eyes

Rufus Polson · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:36 am Post subject:

Since when do you respect the "average person" when they disagree with you, Magoo?
I'm not quite clear what the legal basis for all this stuff is supposed to be. He hasn't been convicted of any crime, he's just been held in illegal detention. He's a Canadian citizen and no longer a minor. If we get him back, under law I don't see what we can do to him against his will. Oh, wait, I see--

thwap · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:18 am Post subject:

I typed a comment to Ezra Levant's site, wherein he called Arar a "liar" (and made pathetic attempts to celebrate The Western Standard's past "reporting"), I said: "I can't decide whether you're more sleazy than you are stupid."

It hasn't been posted yet.
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Man! I hate them fancy-lads!

Diane Demorney · Bazinga! Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 4746 Location: Calgary

thwap · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:52 am Post subject:

But which afflicts the horribly stupid dude worse? I think it's an open question.
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Man! I hate them fancy-lads!

Hephaestion · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:12 am Post subject:

Hephaestion · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject:

Calls to bring Khadr home grow louder as Gitmo trial halts

TS. · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:12 pm Post subject:

It seems that the testimony about Omar Khadr and Maher Arar is not so true:

Rufus Polson · Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:31 am Post subject:

Sounds an awful lot like one of those "Yes, I'll identify whoever you want just stop hitting me" kinds of "identifications".

Tehanu · Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:46 pm Post subject:

Ah, hell, the Pentagon has fired Omar Khadr's lawyer, William Kuebler. Who knows what the ins and out of this really are, but Kuebler was very vocal in pushing for a proper trial for Khadr, for the Canadian government to take any responsibility for him, and to get real evidence introduced in the military trial.

Tehanu · Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:03 am Post subject:

Oho! And the judge in the tribunal has reinstated Kuebler. Seems Hizzoner feels the Pentagon had no authority to fire him.

Quite the soap opera going on. Remind me when Guantanamo is supposed to be shut down?

Tehanu · Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:58 pm Post subject:

Wonder if Stephen Harper is going to ignore the federal court, too. Because they've just told him to request that Khadr be returned to Canada asap.

Harper's going to "study the decision." Yeah, right. Because he went on to say that he was "obviously" going to seek an appeal.

bshmr · Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:11 pm Post subject:

Well, I can imagine the diatribe if an South American President had said that under similar circumstances, or Carribian head-of-state. Don't y'all regret electing Harper dictator?

Cartman · Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:15 pm Post subject:

I think Harper might be making history here. Have the courts ever had to waste money telling the PM to do his job before? Conservatives are fundamentally lazy and they waste money.

thwap · Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:45 pm Post subject:

"lazy money-wasters" ... that about says it. Such contemptible scum.
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Man! I hate them fancy-lads!

Sifo-Dyas · Fulltime enMasse Member Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 390

If Omar Khadr is repatriated, I assume that he and his family will then sue the Government of Canada for damages, monetary compensation, etc.

When Maher Arar sued, the Government of Canada settled for $10 million (given their track record at losing in the courts, Harper must have concluded that the government lawyers in the Department of Justice would not be able to win at trial).

If they sue, I wonder how much the Khadr family will get?

TS. · Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:13 am Post subject:

sam · Fulltime enMasse Member Joined: 21 Jun 2006 Posts: 465

Cartman · Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:02 am Post subject:

http://www.thestar.com/specialsections/article/623291

TS. · Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:05 am Post subject:

I don't think it is the Charter violation that would attract the judgement so much as the various heads of civil liability. Just to start with, there is negligent misrepresenation, and more likely slander and defamation for the statements put about by government sources about him. The liability of the government could be established through vicarious liability on the Bazely v. Curry test, given that the spokespersons who spread this information were certainly acting in the course and scope of their employment.

There might also be a civil action for torture, given the role of the Canadian state in aiding and abetting his torture. Bouzari v. Iran seems to establish that there is likely a cause of action in torture, but simply that you have to sue the state you are claiming against in their own courts or the doctrine of sovereign immunity will quash the case. The cause of action isn't well enough developed yet, but if he sued the government in torture, it could go a long way toward elaborating that test.
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"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

Sifo-Dyas · Fulltime enMasse Member Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Posts: 390

TS. · Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:22 am Post subject:

In the Arar case, the government of Canada was clearly complicit. From what I can tell, there is no allegation that the Canadian government was complicit in having Mr. Sampson falsely imprisoned or tortured.
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"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

No Yards · Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:11 pm Post subject:

I'm betting "Canada's new government" will fight whatever case they are going to fight (be it to keep Khadr from returning to Canada, or to defend against a law suit) based on the "fact" that Khadr is a "liar", and that if he hadn't of "lied" under torture then none of this would have happened ... hell, I'll bet they even make the claim that Khadr's "lies" are responsible for Arar's predicament, and that Khadr should be responsible for paying back that $10M.
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I follow, but more importantly, respect the Golden Rule. I fully and completely respect your right to be 'done on to' as you would 'do on to' others.

Tehanu · Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 1:32 am Post subject:

And you would be right. Rather than actually doing what they should, the federal government has decided to appeal the judicial ruling that they should do the bare minimum that should be expected by every Canadian citizen, let alone one who was incarcerated at 15.

Why? What exactly are they afraid of?

Hephaestion · Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 3:05 pm Post subject:

Tehanu · Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 4:40 am Post subject:

Seems Harper hasn't bothered to check if Omar Khadr is one of the 50 detainees who are being cleared for release.

Tehanu · Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:33 am Post subject:

Khadr tried to fire his American military lawyers, because it seems they're spending all their time fighting with each other. He wants his Canadian lawyers to represent him. The judge said no.

Hephaestion · Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:36 pm Post subject:

Feds appeal court order to bring Khadr home

Tehanu · Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:28 pm Post subject:

CSIS has just had their collective wrists slapped. Doubt that it'll amount to anything but it will probably help bolster the case that Khadr should be assisted by our government.

Tehanu · Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:23 pm Post subject:

The Federal Appeal Court is going to rule today as to whether or not to uphold the order that the Conservatives must intervene in Khadr's case.

While I'm glad we have the courts to help out with this, it makes how many cases now that they have held the Conservatives to account over a case of a Canadian in trouble in another country? Three? Four? How long should we put up with a government that blatantly flouts the laws of Canada and the international human rights treaties that we have signed?

Tehanu · Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:48 pm Post subject:

And the appeal court has upheld the ruling: The Cons must now get to work on getting Omar Khadr home.

About. Fucking. Time.

Want to bet the Conservatives take this to the Supreme Court?

Cartman · Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:15 am Post subject:

Maestro · Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:56 am Post subject:

Well, the Harper government is going to lose this one. There is no way any court in this land could allow the rights of citizenship to be subject to the whims of a foreign country.

The first duty of a national government is to the citizens of the nation. All other considerations come after that. They're going to lose this one, and they're going to look like shit while they do.
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On the wilds of the Drive

Tehanu · Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:44 pm Post subject:

That is so embarrassing. A government that has courts telling it to take care of its citizens, and appealing that. Again. Do they think this issue is just going to go away?

thorin_bane · Member Joined: 29 Jul 2006 Posts: 51

Funny how the party of Law and Order hates it when they don't agree with the LAW. I think they are just trying to wait till he gets a trial in the states or outright dies(accidentally). 7 Years and no trial. Longer than the americans were in WWI WWII and Korea all combined.

Don't we have rules about a speedy trial. If he comes home he will be free and the government both lib and con will be looking very bad on this file. They don't know what to do with it hence the reason they aren't acting. Besides even if he had been charged and some how found guilty(even as an adult) of murder(even in war as a soldier) he would have been through almost 1/3 of his imprisonment by now and eligible for parole. And by all accounts was a model inmate with no likely hood to re-offend.

He would be paroled next year. The law suit that will come from this will be huge. This is the problem they face, better to take the flak from outside the country where he doesn't have a voice than going through a civil trial while having an election to remind people how awful and vile your attitude is.

Funny they got that white chic out of mexico in a hurry though. Also got the guy from newsweek out pretty fast, once someone pointed out his occupation that is.
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Ready for the revolution.

Rufus Polson · Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:12 pm Post subject:

anne cameron · Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:34 am Post subject:

But very quick to invade Panama...or any other little place with no hope in hell of defending itself.

Bullies are like that though, I find.