EnMasse

[Norse of 60]

RCMP have confirmed they used a Taser on a man who died at the Vancouver International Airport early Sunday morning.

[Tehanu]

Did you notice the last paragraph in that story?

[Senor Magoo]

You'd prefer it say "116" have died??

Hands up, everyone who'd like to get rid of them and go back to guns.

Okay, hands up, everyone who's holding out for them to be replaced by wishful thinking ("If someone's freaking out and destroying the place, just talk to them... reach out, give them a hug!")

Finally, hands up anyone who's got a realistic alternative that's neither a gun nor magic.
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ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,

[Caissa]

The coverage I heard on CBC this morning suggests their may have been mental health issues at play.

[curry]

Perhaps it would be helpful to know how many times the tasser has been used. If in the deaths that were caused by the tasser the officer had deployed it correctly.

[TS.]

Magoo, the Taser itself is not a reasonable alternative. When it kills 16 people in six years, that is not acceptable. These officers were not in danger of death or grievous bodily harm (to use the language of the Criminal Code) and that means that lethal force, which the Taser clearly is, is unacceptable. The CBC News report on the radio this morning said that police inflicted two 50 000 volt shocks to this man. That is really excessive.

A Taser should be considered a lethal weapon, since it clearly has the capability to cause death in a number of cases.
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"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson

[Caissa]

Why do I have this overwhelming sense of deja vu as this thread begins to unfold?

[TS.]

[Caissa]

I think my deja vu had more to do with the combatants, and how the argument is going to unfold.

[Senor Magoo]

[elmateo]

Of many of the cases I have seen a taser used, it has been quite excessive force where other traditional methods would not have resulted in bodily harm of anyone. So yes Magoo, talking to people, backing off and containing the situation, and proper hand-to-hand as it were training would be perfectly acceptable in many cases.

The taser is a weapon of fear, it hasn't added to the capabilities of a well prepared officer in any reasonable manner. What it has added is a backup to insecure and violent "officers of the peace" and is an additional tool of excess.

The fact that you just blow-off 16 deaths Magoo worries me.

[elmateo]

This issue has occurred enough times to spark the interest of Amnesty International (hardly a leftist freak organization for Magoo's paranoia):

[Norse of 60]

On the radio this AM they had mention that they had decided to use the taser rather than batons because the scene was going down in an area filled with people and they were concerned how it would 'look' if they were to use batons.

I guess in the pre-taser days they'd just get a bunch of thick necked cops in there to beat the guy to the ground and choke him out until they can cuff him and I'm sure people died in some of those cases too.

Like Magoo said, I'm not sure there is an alternative if someone is violent and ripping the place apart.

[Reverend Blair]

The guy was sweating profusely and acting irrationally by every report I've heard. To me that says he was either seriously ill or on some sort of speedy drug...coke or meth or whatever.

Those drugs carry a risk of heart attack with them. So do a lot of illnesses that cause profuse sweating...generally if you are sweating your heart rate is increased. Running a whack of electricity through somebody also carries a risk of heart attack.

So if somebody is exhibiting symtoms that indicate an increased risk of heart attack, why would run a whack of electricity through him? Whoever made that call was at least negligent, if not outright abusive.
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He was a wise man who invented beer.
--Plato

[elmateo]

But he was destroying the computers and chairs (what is characterised as outa control and a danger to everyone)... material goods > human life.

I wonder how much effort actually was put into calming the subject down, of course the police will say their side of the story, but I have seen too many videos of such cases to really take their word for it.

Another issue is the abusiveness of airport security, not been as big of a problem in this country as south of the border, where a mother was killed for not pouring out a baby's bottle.

[Caissa]

The autopsy results should prove interesting.

[elmateo]

[voice of the damned]

[bshmr]

The descriptions apply to 'panic attack' phenomena as well -- the dude may have freaked out from the utter helplessness and confusion. Happens in hospitals (physcial and mental), prisons and jails, detention camps, as well as isolation areas (such as rooms and waiting areas).

Would help to know what the man was trying to communicate.

[Senor Magoo]

[Caissa]

The man who died at Vancouver International Airport after jolts from a Taser gun may have had a rare condition known as excited delirium, RCMP speculated Monday, though the coroner's office has not yet determined the cause of death.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2007/10/15/taser-death.html

[Norse of 60]

[elmateo]

[Norse of 60]

[Hephaestion]

[Senor Magoo]

[Hephaestion]

Maybe we can issue tasers to NHL referees, if they're such a damn good idea...
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"The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin

[sparqui]

The man was agitated and he didn't speak English. Did anyone (airline, airport security, RCMP) think of finding SOMEONE who spoke his language to find out what was wrong? It's a freaking international airport and his passport information is on file. How come no effort was made to talk to him in his own language?

This is clearly a case of excessive force and it seems that too many of us have become accustomed to accepting such actions as par for the course. The guy wasn't even carrying a weapon. He didn't attack another person.

I hope his family demands an investigation and press charges against airport security and the RCMP.
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“If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a tractor.”

-- Gilles Duceppe

[al-Qa'bong]

[Caissa]

Round and round we go...

[elmateo]

[voice of the damned]

[sparqui]

It's a wonder attendants in psych wards aren't armed with tasers. Or nightclub bouncers. Obviously dealing with out-of-control but unarmed people is dangerous stuff.
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“If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a tractor.”

-- Gilles Duceppe

[Senor Magoo]

I gave you little pre-numbered blanks and everything, and yet so far, I'm the only person who's mentioned an actual, plausible alternative.

Where's your list? Y'know... this list:

[Harry Chorpita]

[elmateo]

Greater training in evaluating the situation, determining the necessary threats, and proper levels of response. Also using traditional techniques for controlling situations within proper limits of personal and situational risk.

Alternatives could be maintaining a controlled parameter of safety.

The criticism is about the justification of quick and excessive uses of force that result in unnecessary death.

[voice of the damned]

[voice of the damned]

[al-Qa'bong]

Whatever happened to summary lynching?

In case that's too inefficient in today's rushed urban landscape, one has to think outside the box. Were there windows available? If so, throw the deviants outside the box.

2.defenestration
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"The purpose of government is to protect the weak from the powerful" Hammurabi

"We can't all be Sam the Sham; some of us have to be Pharoahs" Larry, brother of Darrel, and his other brother Daryl

[voice of the damned]

There appears to be some sort of video related to this incident up at Yahoo News. But this computer I'm on isn't able to play it for some reason. Just a heads up for anyone interested.

[sparqui]

Health care and community care workers have to deal with violent behaviour, often on a daily basis and are trained to do so in a manner that reduces harm to the patient/client, others in the vicinity and themselves.

Some of the techniques include:

Crisis intervention;
Conflict resolution, including management of assaultive behaviour;
Seclusion and restraint philosophy.

Given that our security obsessed governments have turned air travel into one of the most stressful activities that the average person encounters, airport security staff should be trained in all of the above. Lack of such training probably results in unnecessary provocation that only serves to escalate the anxiety felt by someone such as the man who was killed.

The RCMP should be well versed in dealing with assaultive behaviour in an effective way but it seems that lots of them either missed the lessons or don't give a shit.
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“If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a tractor.”

-- Gilles Duceppe

[voice of the damned]

[sparqui]

I would say if the person has a weapon or has grabbed a hostage, then a stronger intervention MIGHT be required. Anyway, the first line of defense should be talking. And I don't buy the excuse that there wasn't someone available to talk to this man in his language.
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“If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a tractor.”

-- Gilles Duceppe

[Norse of 60]

[Sibjyn]

[Senor Magoo]

[al-Qa'bong]

[Sibjyn]

[Cartman]

[al-Qa'bong]