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Harry Chorpita *BANNED*
Joined: 11 Nov 2006 Posts: 227
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:35 am Post subject: Desalination Process Question |
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What happens to the leftover gunk from desalination plants anyway?
Can't just make Salt I'm sure it's not that simple and there must be a lot of the stuff.
Your thoughts? |
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skeptikool *BANNED*
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 1758
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| I've bought sea salt and paid more for it. I imagine uses could be found for all the residue resulting from desalinization. That that was surplus, I should think, could be re-absorbed by the ocean without ill effect, because of its vastness. Not so, the Dead Sea. |
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Harry Chorpita *BANNED*
Joined: 11 Nov 2006 Posts: 227
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| skeptikool wrote: | | I've bought sea salt and paid more for it. I imagine uses could be found for all the residue resulting from desalinization. That that was surplus, I should think, could be re-absorbed by the ocean without ill effect, because of its vastness...... |
The Sea Salt you bought was produced by evaporation and isn't the byproduct of desalination.
The idea that the ocean can absorb extra anything 'because of it's vastness' has to come from someone who's never been on the sea.
It's so ridiculous I don't whether to laugh or cry.  |
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HAHL Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 1075 Location: St.Jean, Terre-Neuve
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| Harry Chorpita wrote: | | skeptikool wrote: | | I've bought sea salt and paid more for it. I imagine uses could be found for all the residue resulting from desalinization. That that was surplus, I should think, could be re-absorbed by the ocean without ill effect, because of its vastness...... |
The Sea Salt you bought was produced by evaporation and isn't the byproduct of desalination.
The idea that the ocean can absorb extra anything 'because of it's vastness' has to come from someone who's never been on the sea.
It's so ridiculous I don't whether to laugh or cry.  |
Oi mate,
Not a very respectful way to address another poster's statement, now is it?
Not only is ridicule quite demeaning when people are posting to ask a question to the forum, but also could get you a warning...
Also. you didn't even answer the question. |
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skeptikool *BANNED*
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 1758
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:19 am Post subject: |
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Harry Chorpita:
| Quote: | The idea that the ocean can absorb extra anything 'because of it's vastness' has to come from someone who's never been on the sea.
It's so ridiculous I don't whether to laugh or cry.  |
I'm very inclined to call you a vulgar little twit - or worse. Your rudeness was quite uncalled for.
My statement clearly referred to returning to the seawater WHAT HAD BEEN TAKEN FROM IT barring the fresh water. And who's to say it's "gunk"?
As a crew member on the Queen Mary and several other passenger ships sailing out of Southampton, I quite possibly became quite aware of several oceans before you were born.
You asked for "your thoughts". That's what you got. You can accept them or just piss off. |
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Harry Chorpita *BANNED*
Joined: 11 Nov 2006 Posts: 227
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| skeptikool wrote: | | My statement clearly referred to returning to the seawater WHAT HAD BEEN TAKEN FROM IT barring the fresh water. And who's to say it's "gunk"? |
Further research has shown that one of the main points of opposition to desalination is the disposal of super concentrated saline solution-which has deadly effects on sea life.
I accept that I asked the question in the wrong Forum-searching found some informed dialogue from experienced posters with solid scientific backgrounds-not keyboard jockeys intent on posting 'the right answer'. |
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HAHL Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 1075 Location: St.Jean, Terre-Neuve
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| Harry Chorpita wrote: | | skeptikool wrote: | | My statement clearly referred to returning to the seawater WHAT HAD BEEN TAKEN FROM IT barring the fresh water. And who's to say it's "gunk"? |
Further research has shown that one of the main points of opposition to desalination is the disposal of super concentrated saline solution-which has deadly effects on sea life.
I accept that I asked the question in the wrong Forum-searching found some informed dialogue from experienced posters with solid scientific backgrounds-not keyboard jockeys intent on posting 'the right answer'. |
You should still apologise.
Also, didn't find anything about the energetic cost of desalination; the fact that most energy sources used, release carbon dioxide and hence exacerbate global warming this, in what are generally drought stricken areas?? |
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skeptikool *BANNED*
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 1758
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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Harry Chorpita:
| Quote: | | not keyboard jockeys intent on posting 'the right answer'. |
What's with you? You pile insult on insult. Choice of forum is not at issue. You might have done your "further research" before posting the topic.
It seems you've sensed a certain status between me and the mods, and others on the board, and are seeking acceptance by sucking up to the perceived clique.
If you don't wish to engage in mature dialogue I suggest you search elsewhere. |
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Harry Chorpita *BANNED*
Joined: 11 Nov 2006 Posts: 227
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| skeptikool wrote: | | ....It seems you've sensed a certain status between me and the mods, and others on the board, and are seeking acceptance by sucking up to the perceived clique.... | You flatter yourself......  |
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skeptikool *BANNED*
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 1758
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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Harry Chorpita:
| Quote: | | You flatter yourself...... |
On the contrary. Your comprehension is lacking. In that "status", I consider myself one of the frequently-shit-upon outsiders.
I don't wish to discuss it with you further. You were wrong. That's it. |
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Harry Chorpita *BANNED*
Joined: 11 Nov 2006 Posts: 227
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| skeptikool wrote: | | ...In that "status", I consider myself one of the frequently-shit-upon outsiders. |
A drama queen with a persecution complex-what next?  |
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Diane Demorney Bazinga!

Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 4746 Location: Calgary
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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Harry, stop it. That's 2 threads here that you're harassing skeptikool. Consider this a mild reproof.
/mod hat off. _________________ Scissors cuts paper. Paper covers rock. Rock crushes lizard. Lizard poisons Spock. Spock smashes scissors. Scissors decapitates lizard. Lizard eats paper. Paper disproves Spock. Spock vaporizes rock. And as it always has, rock crushes scissors. |
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Reverend Blair Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 2255
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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At the risk of wandering back toward the topic....
1. What, besides salt, is left over from the desalination process? I assume there's something.
2. Since dropping ocean salinity around melting glaciers has been noted as one of the many problems caused by global warming, could salt from desalination be used to help address that?
3. Is desalinated water going to be used for irrigation? My opinion of irrigation isn't really high.
All I really know about salt is the drinking habits of truck drivers who work in the salt mines of Saskatchewan, so some links and stuff would be handy. _________________ He was a wise man who invented beer.
--Plato |
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bshmr Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Posts: 4003 Location: Central USA, Earth
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:37 am Post subject: |
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Let's see if this illustration helps (it may not):
Ambient coastline water = 90 parts water, 10 parts minerals of which 3 are salt (Note: the preceedcing is written in brown pixels generated by brown bits)
Desalination extracts 80 of the 90 units of water with 10 lost; the residual when dumped back into the sea doubles the relative mineral and salt content for 10 per 100 to 20 per hundred. There are lots of things or dosages where twice as much will kill you.
On the second pass: less than 90 parts per hundred of water but not quite the 80 parts in the waste are processed, over 10 parts per 100 are mineral but less than the 20 in the waste.
[ Complete dilution of waste minerals is never achieved. Ocean currents, tides, and the like can help but the locale is going to be altered. ]
BTW, OTTOMH, just a hypothetical. |
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Rufus Polson Purple Library Guy
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 3483 Location: SFU and/or the college of Riddlemastery at Caithnard
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| bshmr wrote: |
Desalination extracts 80 of the 90 units of water with 10 lost; the residual when dumped back into the sea doubles the relative mineral and salt content for 10 per 100 to 20 per hundred. There are lots of things or dosages where twice as much will kill you.
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Doubles? Why doubles in particular? Wouldn't that kind of depend on how much sea water there was relative to how much residual being dumped, and how much it got mixed? And really, there's a *lot* of sea water. Every day who knows how much of it gets evaporated by the action of the sun, leaving all the minerals behind and giving us things like rain. I don't think desalination is going to make a massive difference relative to the scale of that process. If you dumped the stuff consistently in the same place in quiet waters and didn't mix it much, I expect you would totally create a local dead zone (and incidentally presumably drastically reduce the effectiveness of your desalination operation if your intake was anywhere near your dumping). But I shouldn't think it would *have* to be that way.
Desalination presumably requires regulation to stop it from creating local ecological nightmares, but wouldn't inherently create any broader problems. |
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skeptikool *BANNED*
Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 1758
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Rufus,
I got very much out of your reply. I think a mountain is being attempted to be made out of a molehill.
I'm curious to know where, and if in fact, on our coasts there are such operations that exploit seawater content.
I think it most probable that we would be seeking the chemical content rather than potable water. And if that were the case, perhaps what, if anything, was returned to the oceans may be fresh-er water than what was removed. |
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pogo Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 512 Location: Richmond
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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I agree. I would think that it is all a question of scale. If you are returning concentrated residue to a small area of relatively stable water then obviously the salinity will rise. It all depends on how much you residue you are returning and where you are returning it to.
My septic tank is full of unhealthy stuff when it is concentrated, but when it is spread throughout our septic field it is relatively harmless. |
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Makwa GothWannabee

Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 711 Location: Just this side of despair.
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| skeptikool wrote: | | In that "status", I consider myself one of the frequently-shit-upon outsiders. | Oh, gee, I'm sure it's not that bad skl. On some boards, I'm a 'frequently-shit-upon insider', and that's worse.  _________________ When the madness comes, let it flood on down and over me sweetly, let it drown the parts of me weak and blessed and damned, let it slake my life, let it take my soul and living completely, let it be who I am. {Van Der Graaf Generator} |
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bshmr Fulltime enMasse Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Posts: 4003 Location: Central USA, Earth
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| bshmr wrote: | | ... [ Complete dilution of waste minerals is never achieved. Ocean currents, tides, and the like can help but the locale is going to be altered. ] ... OTTOMH ... hypothetical ... |
| Rufus Polson wrote: | | bshmr wrote: | | Desalination extracts 80 of the 90 units of water with 10 lost; the residual when dumped back into the sea doubles the relative mineral and salt content for 10 per 100 to 20 per hundred. There are lots of things or dosages where twice as much will kill you. |
Doubles? Why doubles ... If you dumped the stuff consistently in the same place in quiet waters and didn't mix it much, I expect you would totally create a local dead zone (and incidentally presumably drastically reduce the effectiveness of your desalination operation if your intake was anywhere near your dumping). But I shouldn't think it would *have* to be that way. |
My example was relatively thorough, although overly simple. It is not that sophisticated a model, yet dilution issues were alluded to, IMO, more realistically than your counter-model of evaporation. |
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